Ad Widget

Collapse

Primal not enough?

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Primal not enough?

    My A1C shows pre-diabetes. I've been eating a moderate carb (50-100g /day) and exercising regularly with no change over the last 4 years. Doc prescribing metformin to aid in diabetes prevention. Anyone have experience here?

  • #2
    It's possible the high fat, low carb nature of a primal diet is contributing to your insulin resistance/pre-diabetes. Btw, <100g is still low carb, not moderate.

    Check out this video that explains it.
    >>http://nutritionfacts.org/video/what...in-resistance/
    *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
    *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
    *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

    Comment


    • #3
      My blood test was in the prediabetes range last November. I had diabetic symptoms such as excessive thirst and frequent urination; intense hunger pains that required food or else I would feel faint/sick; tendency to gain weight suddenly for no apparent reason; bouts of fatigue. My diet was gluten-free home-cooked whole food...moderate protein and fat plus moderate portions of carbs such as sweet potatoes, white potatoes, white rice, quinoa, small amounts of fruit, gluten-free baked goods on occasion, and potato starch and green banana flour for resistant starch. Very little sugar/honey.

      Since that obviously wasn't working, I tried going very low carb for the first time. No potatoes, grains, potato starch, green banana flour, fruit, gluten-free (high glycemic) crackers, etc. I stopped eating cashews because they are relatively high in carbs. Ate more fat calories, not protein. Within a few days the thirst and hunger pains were gone and I actually was able to delay eating lunch by a couple of hours without feeling bad at all. (Which may seem like nothing unless you're been a slave to regular "feeding times" for decades.) I've lost a few pounds effortlessly and my body composition is gradually improving (smaller waist circumference.) I take blood glucose readings here and there and have a new A1c coming up, but I feel much better. My weight should be about ten pounds less but I'm not that overweight. I walk a couple miles or ride a stationary bike most days.

      I've looked into Type 2 diabetes quite a bit and am intrigued with the possibility of getting rid of it by the Newcastle protocol which involves fasting to lose fat around the pancreas and other organs. Haven't fasted yet but increasingly feel like I could. I get some carbs from above-the-ground veggies and nuts and occasional very small (like 2 tablespoons) portions of a starchy carb or fruit, just for practice. If possible I'd like to regain the ability to process carbs but until then I'm avoiding most of them.

      You have to experiment on you and see what works. I'm a little annoyed with myself for constantly believing that just because someone else can eat X, so can I. Not necessarily so.
      Late 50s, post-menopausal, low carb with some dairy, following the 5 Leptin Rules, taking ThyroGold, eating lots o' fiber and zero wheat with great results. My Primal Journal

      Comment


      • #4
        P.S. I can't stand the idea of taking diabetes meds. Why, so I can eat a bunch of carbs? That's like trying to put out a fire by spraying water from a hose while pouring gasoline with the other hand.
        Late 50s, post-menopausal, low carb with some dairy, following the 5 Leptin Rules, taking ThyroGold, eating lots o' fiber and zero wheat with great results. My Primal Journal

        Comment


        • #5
          Energy- interesting. I've done a VLC, high fat in the past and perhaps I need to return to it. I hate the idea of meds, too. The ketosis thing just seems to tough to maintain! I so love fruit. I also love intense and frequent exercise (not excessive) but can't really do it when so low carb. But the recent weight gain I've had, plus the sub optimal labs, make me think that I've got to do something.....
          The doc says eat lots of grains, plant foods and take the meds. I'm not so into that.....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by FireFinder View Post
            Energy- interesting. I've done a VLC, high fat in the past and perhaps I need to return to it. I hate the idea of meds, too. The ketosis thing just seems to tough to maintain! I so love fruit. I also love intense and frequent exercise (not excessive) but can't really do it when so low carb. But the recent weight gain I've had, plus the sub optimal labs, make me think that I've got to do something.....
            The doc says eat lots of grains, plant foods and take the meds. I'm not so into that.....
            A quick look at your profile shows identical threads to this one - doing 100g carbs or thereabout, exercising, fit, normal weight and still having pre-diabetic A1c. Since 2013, it's more or less the same story 4 yrs later.

            If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting!

            Try something else. Increase your carbs beyond what you've done before. Eat mostly whole food carbs like potatoes, oats, rice, beans, lentils, starchy veggies, fruits etc. You'll obviously need to eat less fatty foods (meats, oils, butter, cheese etc) to compensate, otherwise you'll get fat due to excess calories. Keep exercising at least 5x/week and then check your fasting glucose over the next few weeks and A1c in a few months. Don't be surprised if it goes down.

            Over the last 2 years, I've been eating over 300g carbs (about 75% of my diet) and my fasting glucose has ranged from 70-81 mg/dl (normal is 65-99) and my last A1c in December was 5.2%(normal is 4.8-5.6). I've lost 35+ lbs and maintained my weight loss.
            *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
            *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
            *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

            Comment


            • #7
              KimLean-
              Wait, what?? MORE carbs? That sounds amazing, but don't all those carbs turn to sugar and make matters worse? And I agree, I'm doing the same things and getting the same results, so yes, something needs to change. What is the mechanism/science behind the increase in carbs lowering blood sugar do you think?

              Comment


              • #8
                You could get a blood sugar monitor and check after eating to see how various foods affect you. If someone can eat 100s of grams of carbs a day, good for them but it isn't true for everyone.

                Here is a page with several videos about what causes diabetes type 2 i.e. insulin resistance: https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...ecture-series/
                Goes into detail about studies of why/how people get diabetes. Eating sugar, wheat, wheat and other carbs are a big part, but not the whole story. Once you become insulin resistant it becomes a viscous cycle that's hard to break.
                Late 50s, post-menopausal, low carb with some dairy, following the 5 Leptin Rules, taking ThyroGold, eating lots o' fiber and zero wheat with great results. My Primal Journal

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by FireFinder View Post
                  KimLean-
                  Wait, what?? MORE carbs? That sounds amazing, but don't all those carbs turn to sugar and make matters worse? And I agree, I'm doing the same things and getting the same results, so yes, something needs to change. What is the mechanism/science behind the increase in carbs lowering blood sugar do you think?
                  In the video I posted previously, Dr. Greger explains the mechanism quite nicely.

                  https://nutritionfacts.org/video/wha...in-resistance/
                  He also has other videos and articles on diabetes.
                  *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
                  *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
                  *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FireFinder View Post
                    Energy- interesting. I've done a VLC, high fat in the past and perhaps I need to return to it. I hate the idea of meds, too. The ketosis thing just seems to tough to maintain! I so love fruit. I also love intense and frequent exercise (not excessive) but can't really do it when so low carb. But the recent weight gain I've had, plus the sub optimal labs, make me think that I've got to do something.....
                    The doc says eat lots of grains, plant foods and take the meds. I'm not so into that.....
                    You can do VLC without having to give up on fruit, just can't have every kind or loads, that's all... ketosis is not necessary to lose weight either...

                    If you like you can try a different approach in which you eat 2 VLC meals (protein/veggies/fat) for breakfast and lunch and add some carbs (fruit/potatoes) to dinner, in order to sleep well...

                    Or you can go KL's way... low fat/high carb... whatever works for you... it's not the route that knowledgeable doctors like David Unwin or Roy Taylor advice to their patients...

                    http://www.fixingdad.com/watch-the-film

                    "Don't sweat the small stuff and relax about the whole process"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't see how eating a lot of carbs reduces insulin and blood sugar...what is the mechanism?
                      Late 50s, post-menopausal, low carb with some dairy, following the 5 Leptin Rules, taking ThyroGold, eating lots o' fiber and zero wheat with great results. My Primal Journal

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Energy! View Post
                        I don't see how eating a lot of carbs reduces insulin and blood sugar...what is the mechanism?
                        Wishful thinking? To be honest, according to Denise Minger and others both ends of the spectrum supposedly can be successful... but to be on a diet and eat all the wonderful things that keto/LCHF/Primal has to offer... or a diet with loads of fiber, little fat, hardly any meat/fish/fowl... hmmm, difficult choice... NOT.

                        "Don't sweat the small stuff and relax about the whole process"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you are leptin resistant, losing body fat will make you hungry all the time, and then you'll fall off the wagon and regain. It doesn't matter which wagon you fell off.
                          I moved to primalforums.com to escape the spam.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Energy! View Post
                            I don't see how eating a lot of carbs reduces insulin and blood sugar...what is the mechanism?
                            The issue is that by eating low carb, your diet is going to automatically tend to be higher in fat. It's the FAT that's contributing to intramyocellular lipids that are interfering with insulin signaling and glucose transport from the bloodstream and into the muscle cells, thus keeping blood sugar elevated even though your body keeps pumping out insulin. By reducing dietary fat, this insulin resistance is reduced. So the key is reducing the fat in the diet. The more carbs and less fat you eat, the better insulin works to regulate blood glucose.

                            Here are some snippets from the video transcript:

                            ".........Insulin is the key that unlocks the door to let sugar in our blood enter the muscle cell. When insulin attaches to the insulin receptor, it activates an enzyme, which activates another enzyme, which activates two more enzymes, which finally activate glucose transport, which acts as a gateway for glucose to enter the cell. So, insulin is the key that unlocks the door into our muscle cells.".....

                            ........"What if there's enough insulin, but the insulin doesn't work? The key is there, but something's gummed up the lock. This is called insulin resistance. Our muscle cells become resistant to the effect of insulin. What's gumming up the door locks on our muscle cells, preventing insulin from letting sugar in? Fat. What's called intramyocellular lipid, or fat inside our muscle cells.

                            Fat in the bloodstream can build up inside the muscle cells, create toxic fatty breakdown products and free radicals that can block the signaling pathway process. So, no matter how much insulin we have out in our blood, it's not able to open the glucose gates, and blood sugar levels build up in the blood."

                            "This mechanism, by which fat (specifically saturated fat) induces insulin resistance, wasn't known until fancy MRI techniques were developed to see what was happening inside people's muscles as fat was infused into their bloodstream. And, that's how scientists found that elevation of fat levels in the blood causes insulin resistance by inhibition of glucose transport into the muscles.

                            And, this can happen within just three hours. One hit of fat can start causing insulin resistance, inhibiting glucose uptake after just 160 minutes.

                            Same thing happens to adolescents. You infuse fat into their bloodstream. It builds up in their muscles, and decreases their insulin sensitivity—showing that increased fat in the blood can be an important contributor to insulin resistance.

                            ......Then, you can do the opposite experiment. Lower the level of fat in people's blood, and the insulin resistance comes right down. Clear the fat out of the blood, and you can clear the sugar out of the blood. So, that explains this finding. On the high-fat diet, the ketogenic diet, insulin doesn't work as well. Our bodies are insulin-resistant.

                            But, as the amount of fat in our diet gets lower and lower, insulin works better and better. This is a clear demonstration that the sugar tolerance of even healthy individuals can be impaired by administering a low-carb, high-fat diet. But, we can decrease insulin resistance -the cause of prediabetes, the cause of type 2 diabetes- by decreasing saturated fat intake."
                            Last edited by KimLean125byMar15; 04-04-2017, 12:54 PM.
                            *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
                            *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
                            *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lovebird View Post

                              Wishful thinking? To be honest, according to Denise Minger and others both ends of the spectrum supposedly can be successful... but to be on a diet and eat all the wonderful things that keto/LCHF/Primal has to offer... or a diet with loads of fiber, little fat, hardly any meat/fish/fowl... hmmm, difficult choice... NOT.
                              First of all, FireFinder has already been there...done that. For years! It's not working, is it? I wouldn't tolerate pre-diabetes for years on end, in the name of following a LC/keto/primal diet. Doesn't matter how well it works for anyone else.

                              Plus, there's no need for an 'all or nothing' mentality. Who said she has to "eat hardly any meat or fat"? There's a lot of space between 2 extremes. How much she modifies her diet will depend on how her body responds, based on her lab results (rather than dogma). All she needs to do in this experiment is displace some of the fatty foods (whether from meats, added oils, cheese, butter, high fat dairy etc) and instead add other whole food carbs, like potatoes, oats, rice, beans, lentils, fruits, starchy veggies etc. for several weeks and see what effect it has on lowering her fasting blood sugar and eventually A1c.
                              Last edited by KimLean125byMar15; 04-04-2017, 01:28 PM.
                              *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
                              *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
                              *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X