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Hi everyone! An appeal for help with an enlarged liver.

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  • Hi everyone! An appeal for help with an enlarged liver.

    Hello everyone,

    I joined today because I'm living in a twilight zone of health. My parents were athletes, but I've always been sickish. Even as a child. I would be happy just to be normal, but even that much seems far away. I understand fully why my parents did no trust doctors though. I think athletes are uniquely positioned to distrust medicine. My doctors keep giving me downers and I keep refusing, for instance. My issues now are enlarged and fatty liver and profound fatigue secondary to an ongoing chronic EBV infection that has probably been with me for years. Why they would give me slow down drugs for that makes no sense to me.

    Well, to be fair, they do offer me uppers also, such as thyroid meds, and a stimulant for fatigue, but they give me headaches and I can't tolerate them. I do better with caffeine.

    Today, my doctor's nurse said something that was so ludicrous I once again lost what little faith I had in them. I called to get the results of a CAT scan of my abdomen with contrast. It was "no masses" but with enlarged and fatty liver. She swore up and down that my liver "is not inflamed though and should not be painful." Ha. I got the CAT scan because I felt pain in my liver area. Her proof? The function tests are normal. I got the function tests to be normal by going off all my meds for two months. So even if what she says is true, then the meds are the problem. But I am sure she isn't right. I need help and I have nobody left who I trust in the "medical" community.

    I have adopted many protocols for healing myself. For about 3 years, up until two months ago, I was paleo-keto, but getting off of so many drugs and being on a strict diet at the same time was not possible for me. So I once again am weaning off the carbs. In fact, I may do another fast, probably for 10 days and then go back to keto with an intermittent fasting cycle.

    The amazing thing is, that my liver still hasn't been able to clear itself of the fat even after years of doing that. Maybe I'm taking in too many calories, or maybe I have what Dr. Horowitz calls "MSIDS" or associated infections of Lyme's disease, but not Lyme itself. While I'm guessing, I'm losing my life's quality and possibly even the quantity. I used to be so outdoorsy, you couldn't keep me indoors in anything above 30 degree weather (F). Ticks were so normal I just lived defensively around them and shrugged when I found yet another one. Each summer we had a flea infestation that we eradicated with foggers in September. Hey ho, that was just the way it was. Now I'm worried I may have overworked my immune system and I don't know how to help it get better.

    Other than fasting, are there other things you can recommend to me? I recently found an IV Vitamins clinic near enough to me for a day trip. It's already on my plan. Anything specific for fatty liver that's enlarged? And probably inflamed, regardless of what the nurse thinks?

    I'm in the Raleigh, NC area if you have a suggestion for a nearby naturopath to see. Thanks

    -----------------------
    Mark, I've been reading your blog for many years and just want to take this opportunity to say thank you. I don't expect that you read every forum article, though.
    Last edited by Realfoodorbust; 07-25-2017, 07:23 AM.

  • #2
    Not knowing what your paleo-keto diet looks like I'd just like to point out that choline is important for liver health: https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2010/...t-eggs-organs/
    "Don't sweat the small stuff and relax about the whole process"

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks that does help. I didn't realize how many foods had gone missing from the typical diet that contain choline. I take a lecithin supplement daily and have done since around 1995. Not sure if that's the same thing. Phosphotidylcholine. In any case, my intake of eggs is high enough to be embarrassing. People are like.... wow you're having a party? You're buying 4 dozen eggs!

      Maybe I should heed some theories that say I should stay away from egg whites.

      One plan I have is to stop being meek and start proudly offending my family by making liver regularly. I love liver and I just haven't eaten it lately because of the bad behavior of those that claim to love me. Maybe they need to rethink that "love."

      Comment


      • #4
        OMG thanks so much for that link. I know it was just a link, but it reminded me about liver. I was having a headache when I wrote the previous response. I dug the ancient liver I had in my freezer and despite it being about 3 years old, I cooked it up with some veggies and home rendered lard. I ate tiny amounts of it slowly because my body's first reaction was nausea. But after a few bites the nausea went away. And now, it's been an hour and my headache is gone!

        I might have been eating meats, but not the right ones.

        Comment


        • #5
          You're welcome. Care to share a bit more about your diet or why you prefer to start (another) fast? Being female there might be better options...
          "Don't sweat the small stuff and relax about the whole process"

          Comment


          • #6
            My diet has been paleo-keto for a couple/few years now. I took a break when I withdrew from about 10 medicines. For the last two months it has been a real food, but any comfort food is ok diet so I could get through the withdrawal. I never liked processed food anyway, it was just a shortcut, so for me "comfort food" is something like making a large amount of japanese buckwheat pasta up as "ans climbing a tree" (a chinese street vendor food), or making mac and cheese from scratch. So that's what "cheating" looks like for me. I'm not one to eat things I don't like. That was one of the first rules I made when I stopped being fed by mom, the school cafeteria, etc.

            So when the diet is done well, it looks more like this:

            70-85% fat in the form of rendered fat
            * I make Schmaltz which I agree is possibly the world's most perfect food.

            *I try to find stage 4 or better bacon, or if I can't I'll default to the thickest sliced uncured bacon and render that fat.. use the crumbles in salads.

            * Bone broths are the base for many stews which were taught to me by my family.

            * I love to eat various organs, but I find some of them nearly impossible to find, such as lungs. Lungs are a lot like liver without the strong flavor that some find objectionable. I think they're very perishable so unless I find a farm nearby and catch it at the time that a mobile slaughterhouse is coming, I probably won't get any. I got some a few times when a friend purchased an animal to slaughter at home and I helped. I was paid in tasty organs, which he did not want, and I find hard to get. Fair trade, but few women could tolerate helping slaughter something, I suspect. It's not an easy thing to do.

            I have a rule:

            Each day I will eat:

            *eggs for breakfast, deviled eggs for snacks
            *one meal-salad
            *one stew or broth
            *one dense protein which can be a protein shake
            *the only "sugar cheat" allowed is berries in limited quantity

            I've stuck to that rule for a long time. I also take a large amount of vitamin C and E each day along with a multivitamin.

            I'm pretty sure it wasn't my diet doing the harm. I'm pretty sure it was the medications and I'm seeking techniques to help my liver recover. But I'll be happy to consider all suggestions.

            I also think I'm having a hard time clearing ordinary infections. Last winter I was on antibiotics for over 4 months, nearly constantly. If it wasn't one infection, it was another. So I've been rebuilding with probiotics. However, I'm unable to take most prebiotics since I'm sensitive to FODMAPS. There's enough prebiotics in foods for me.

            I'm not sure what I said to give the impression I "prefer" fasting. I simply know that fasting helps the liver to recover a bit. It also weakens me considerably so I don't see it as a first line treatment. But if it's fasting or death by liver failure, I'll fast. I do better with intermittent fasting.

            I managed to find some stage 4 beef liver at Whole Foods so I'm going to continue with that. Yesterday I had loose stools, but it felt right somehow. I went to bed feeling relief, like something awful had stopped. I've had this feeling of "alarm" deep inside for several years. I don't really call it pain, but it can cause pain if it causes muscles to get tight. That alarm shut off yesterday. Part of me is wondering if I'm imagining all this.


            Last edited by Realfoodorbust; 07-27-2017, 07:31 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Have you seen a functional medicine Doctor? I really don't want to give much advice, because it sounds like your condition is really really complex. I think a functional medicine doctor might be able to help you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DawnHoff View Post
                Have you seen a functional medicine Doctor? I really don't want to give much advice, because it sounds like your condition is really really complex. I think a functional medicine doctor might be able to help you.
                Originally posted by DawnHoff View Post
                Have you seen a functional medicine Doctor? I really don't want to give much advice, because it sounds like your condition is really really complex. I think a functional medicine doctor might be able to help you.

                I reached out to several. I wish I lived in Oregon. One of them is super efficient, and since I've been ill, I'm not. I don't know if she will have the patience to help me. But I will try. Another seems more focused on cancer. We will see about him. A third, I probably will not see. They're a "diet and exercise" seminar type of practice. Sure they do other stuff, but you must attend their seminars to see the doctor. Seems like it's too complex for me. Anyway I feel so rotten I've cancelled regular doc visits occasionally. I doubt my attendance would be stellar.

                However, I wonder why there is a forum if nobody gives advice. Other than to see a doctor (of any type)?

                I mean, I'm obviously seeing a doctor, so why would anyone not want to help? If I said, "gee, I'm too poor to see a GP" you might have something there about free advice. But I'm not one of those.

                So what is your issue specifically with helping me specifically with my specific problem?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Fatty liver is usually the result of either heavy alcohol or obesity. Do either of those apply to you?
                  I moved to primalforums.com to escape the spam.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    With an enlarged/fatty liver, I think any diet resembling keto/paleo, or any high fat diet (especially saturated fat), is a terrible idea!
                    https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-inf...diet-nutrition

                    Everything you've described in terms of what you eat or think you should eat, is the exact opposite of what you should eat. I'm not sure if you were kidding about this - "70-85% fat in the form of rendered fat"!!
                    And dozens(!) of eggs? Is that per week? Sounds terribly unhealthy especially for someone with poor health. And to top that off, your statement... "the only "sugar cheat" allowed is berries in limited quantity".... is just bizarre. I would be eating loads and loads of berries, instead of limiting them.

                    I'd drop the saturated fat, and eat more fruits, veggies, whole grains, beans, lentils, potatoes etc and do more of a Mediterranean type diet. Also, what does your lipid panel look like?
                    *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
                    *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
                    *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Realfoodorbust View Post




                      I reached out to several. I wish I lived in Oregon. One of them is super efficient, and since I've been ill, I'm not. I don't know if she will have the patience to help me. But I will try. Another seems more focused on cancer. We will see about him. A third, I probably will not see. They're a "diet and exercise" seminar type of practice. Sure they do other stuff, but you must attend their seminars to see the doctor. Seems like it's too complex for me. Anyway I feel so rotten I've cancelled regular doc visits occasionally. I doubt my attendance would be stellar.

                      However, I wonder why there is a forum if nobody gives advice. Other than to see a doctor (of any type)?

                      I mean, I'm obviously seeing a doctor, so why would anyone not want to help? If I said, "gee, I'm too poor to see a GP" you might have something there about free advice. But I'm not one of those.

                      So what is your issue specifically with helping me specifically with my specific problem?
                      Originally posted by Realfoodorbust View Post




                      I reached out to several. I wish I lived in Oregon. One of them is super efficient, and since I've been ill, I'm not. I don't know if she will have the patience to help me. But I will try. Another seems more focused on cancer. We will see about him. A third, I probably will not see. They're a "diet and exercise" seminar type of practice. Sure they do other stuff, but you must attend their seminars to see the doctor. Seems like it's too complex for me. Anyway I feel so rotten I've cancelled regular doc visits occasionally. I doubt my attendance would be stellar.

                      However, I wonder why there is a forum if nobody gives advice. Other than to see a doctor (of any type)?

                      I mean, I'm obviously seeing a doctor, so why would anyone not want to help? If I said, "gee, I'm too poor to see a GP" you might have something there about free advice. But I'm not one of those.

                      So what is your issue specifically with helping me specifically with my specific problem?
                      The reason I say that is bc conventional doctors are of little help, whereas my impression is that functional doctors are more helpful. They might do some gene-testing on you and find that a keto diet suits you really badly, or that you have some kind of gut problem. If I had access to one I would definitely see one with all my issues - none of them as serious as fatty liver.

                      One thought - have you been tested for hepatitis (or ever had hepatitis)? My mother in law died from fatty liver caused by chronic hepatitis.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you are having these on-going issues, you should focus on modulating your immune system and increase your macrophage activity
                        then do cleansing. GcMAF products are a great to accomplish that. Good luck warriors!!

                        oh here is the link where I got mine from. https://www.naturalregenesis.net/

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