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  • #16
    Originally posted by John Caton View Post
    Frankly, Elliott, I can't figure which of your questions relate to which of my quotes you cite, but it doesn't matter. Try a search on any engine with just the words "fatty acids carbs atp" and you'll have more citations than you can read today.

    Again, why debate so many of the preliminary steps? You tell me, do your nerves transmit ATP or do they transmit electrical current? Then tell me where on earth there can be an electric current without a magnetic field? Whether as waves or particles, they exist together everywhere I can think of.

    More fat, more ATP, more electromagnetic energy. Bottom line.
    Except...Butyrate produces less ATP than glucose. So, in that case: more fat, less ATP.
    My opinions and some justification

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Elliot View Post
      Except...Butyrate produces less ATP than glucose. So, in that case: more fat, less ATP.
      Is that the only exception you can cite, a fat converted from a carb by gut bacteria, to supply the colon it's preferred energy?
      Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
      Old Paths ... New Journeys

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      • #18
        Originally posted by John Caton View Post
        Is that the only exception you can cite, a fat converted from a carb by gut bacteria, to supply the colon it's preferred energy?
        Your claim was that a molecule of fat produces 6 times the energy of a molecule of glucose. You also seem to be conflating energy with ATP, though when I mentioned that, you accused me of misinterpreting you. So I'm not sure exactly what you're claiming.

        Anyway, glucose produces two acetyl CoAs. For a fatty acid molecule to produce 6 times as much acetyl CoA, it would need to produce 12 acetyl CoAs. This would correspond with a 24-carbon fatty acid. These can certainly exist, but they are basically irrelevant to human metabolism. We neither produce them nor eat them in significant quantities.

        Thus, in all relevant cases, a fatty acid molecule does not produce 6 times as much ATP as glucose. It would certainly be false to say this is true for all fatty acid molecules, which seems to be what you said earlier.

        You could claim fatty acid molecules produce 6 times as much energy as glucose if ATP is produced without acetyl CoA (eg glycolysis), or if some of this energy is counted in a form other than ATP, but when I brought this up earlier you accused me of misinterpreting you.

        EDIT: whoops, I just realized your quote referred to energy produced in the mitochondria. So I edited my post and removed a part about glycolysis.
        Last edited by Elliot; 08-14-2015, 01:01 PM.
        My opinions and some justification

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        • #19
          The production of the extra ATP from fats is during the conversion of the fatty acid to acetyl CoA during the Fatty Acid Spiral. The yield of the reaction is ATP and acetyl CoA. Then, the acetyl CoA proceeds forward to generate more ATP.
          Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
          Old Paths ... New Journeys

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          • #20
            Originally posted by John Caton View Post
            The production of the extra ATP from fats is during the conversion of the fatty acid to acetyl CoA during the Fatty Acid Spiral. The yield of the reaction is ATP and acetyl CoA. Then, the acetyl CoA proceeds forward to generate more ATP.
            Ha! I forgot about the extra ATP produced during beta oxidation. Anyway, a fatty acid molecule would still only be able to produce six times the ATP of glucose (in the mitochondria) if it were longer than 16 carbons, and this would be assuming that the ATP yield is maximized.
            My opinions and some justification

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Elliot View Post
              Ha! I forgot about the extra ATP produced during beta oxidation. Anyway, a fatty acid molecule would still only be able to produce six times the ATP of glucose (in the mitochondria) if it were longer than 16 carbons, and this would be assuming that the ATP yield is maximized.
              Yes, and the two most abundant saturated fats have 16 and 18 respectively, so go eat a fat cow tonight.

              If ATP isn't maximised, or utilized, then we need to work on that, don't we? My earlier stated premise is that we need to pay attention to mitochondrial health more, to maximize biogenesis of new mitochondra, enhance ATP production and ATP utilization as that is the source of our energy.
              Last edited by John Caton; 08-14-2015, 01:54 PM.
              Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
              Old Paths ... New Journeys

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