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    Hey American, you just did a huge scientific experiment into the application of a low fat, high sugar, grain based food plan. How do you like the results? http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sc...908-story.html


    Wanderin Jack

  • #2
    Originally posted by wanderinjack View Post
    Hey American, you just did a huge scientific experiment into the application of a low fat, high sugar, grain based food plan. How do you like the results? Diabetes nation? Half of Americans have diabetes or pre-diabetes - LA Times


    Wanderin Jack
    Wonderful article Wanderin Jack. Thanks for the link. Sobering statistics. I'm reminded of stats whitebear shared a few evenings ago. It looks like we've gotten to the 50% level about 5 years early. Insanity.
    Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
    Old Paths ... New Journeys

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    • #3
      I'm sure more research is needed to prove the obvious.


      Wanderin Jack

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      • #4
        Well in all fairness, these studies have been in the works for decades. There have been so many studies out there in one form or another that's tried to prove that low fat was better over high fat, and that grain based (healthy whole grain), diets were better than non grain based.

        The one common denominator in those studies was that there was never really a provable difference between high fat and low fat for things like CVD and early death (which the researchers were trying to prove with high fat). What they inadvertently proved was those that undertook a low fat diet ended up acquiring a plethora of other problems in the process like diabetes, cancer, fatty liver, and in some cases early death.

        Now whether or not a high fat diet protecting against such problems, or a grain heavy diet causing the problems is another mystery. Would a person who eats nothing but chicken and turkey breast, along with heaps of veggies acquire such diseases? I tend to think not which leads me to believe, it's grains themselves in some form cause the problems.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by wanderinjack View Post
          I'm sure more research is needed to prove the obvious.


          Wanderin Jack
          Yep, someone will fund it too.

          We, in the US, have the largest population generational bubble in history arriving at an age when the effects of insulin and pancreas dysfunction, glucose toxicity, is manifested so I know that accounts for some of the spike in the stats. But the underlying causes remain, whether the bubble exists or not. It still goes back to there being too many carbs, in too short a time, to be safely shuttled to energy or storage.

          Yep, it will take more study to prove the obvious because we aren't hearing what we want to hear. Isn't that really the difference between "conclusive" and "inconclusive"?
          Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
          Old Paths ... New Journeys

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          • #6
            Originally posted by John Caton View Post
            Yep, someone will fund it too.

            We, in the US, have the largest population generational bubble in history arriving at an age when the effects of insulin and pancreas dysfunction, glucose toxicity, is manifested so I know that accounts for some of the spike in the stats. But the underlying causes remain, whether the bubble exists or not. It still goes back to there being too many carbs, in too short a time, to be safely shuttled to energy or storage.

            Yep, it will take more study to prove the obvious because we aren't hearing what we want to hear. Isn't that really the difference between "conclusive" and "inconclusive"?
            You know ironically, one of the studies that was undertaken a couple of decades ago was one of the ones I mentioned.. trying to prove that high fat was responsible for CVD. At the end of the study, the results were never posted, but when the researchers were questioned as to why they never published their results, they said

            "the results are not what we had hoped for". So yes, your comment of people aren't hearing what they want to hear is 100% true!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by WestCoastFire View Post
              You know ironically, one of the studies that was undertaken a couple of decades ago was one of the ones I mentioned.. trying to prove that high fat was responsible for CVD. At the end of the study, the results were never posted, but when the researchers were questioned as to why they never published their results, they said

              "the results are not what we had hoped for". So yes, your comment of people aren't hearing what they want to hear is 100% true!
              A lot of grant money originates from corporations. Results that are unfavorable to the supporting industry are easy to bury, or rule as inconclusive, or to say more study is needed. It would be a brave soul who would risk continued funding by publicly leaking or publishing results that were negative to the sponsor. Monsanto and Washington University, can you see yourself? Wow! The Monsanto Laboratory of Life Sciences. What a nice facility you built and gave to Wash U. We will forever be in your debt. GMO? No big deal.
              Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
              Old Paths ... New Journeys

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              • #8
                Most upsetting is the blithe shrug that exists in some communities and not others, as if T2D is a badge for turning 50 (or 40 or 30).

                Other nations are in worse shape:
                Reducing the global burden of type 2 diabetes by improving the quality of staple foods
                This article intriguingly tracks diabetes in countries where macro ratios haven't changed much but sources have.
                37//6'3"/185

                My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by picklepete View Post
                  Most upsetting is the blithe shrug that exists in some communities and not others, as if T2D is a badge for turning 50 (or 40 or 30).

                  Other nations are in worse shape:
                  Reducing the global burden of type 2 diabetes by improving the quality of staple foods
                  This article intriguingly tracks diabetes in countries where macro ratios haven't changed much but sources have.
                  Oh this is very common apparently. My father-in-law's doctor told him, in response to his questions about his type 2 diabetes, "Well you were going to get it anyway, so changing anything you do isn't going to help appreciably. Losing weight may help but it's unlikely to remit." (not verbatim but close)

                  When we have health "professionals" tell us that once you reach a certain age that most of these things are inevitable we must fight back because clearly it isn't true. T2D isn't a certainty for anyone if they don't want it to be. CVD is the same way. I've learned that you just have to go with your gut and at times you must ignore the medical practitioners and question the studies.

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                  • #10
                    Saw this yesterday, but I haven't seen the study per se.

                    These Men Ate 6,000 Calories a Day for Science

                    Apparently, insulin resistance was observed to be a failure of the GLUT4 glucose transport. Not so much a specific problem of cellular uptake of glucose, but rather GLUT4's failure to deliver it to the cells in response to insulin's signals. The failure of GLUT4, in a matter of a few days of an extreme SAD diet and consequential oxidative stress, was surprising to the researchers.

                    Failure of GLUT4 to deliver glucose to the cells, therefore, prevents reduction of glucose to safe blood levels and the higher glucose level begins to have toxic effects, particularly in the pancreas. Meanwhile, the higher glucose levels still have to be dealt with and that dirty work falls on the liver to convert and store as fat in the liver.
                    Last edited by John Caton; 09-11-2015, 02:59 AM.
                    Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
                    Old Paths ... New Journeys

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wanderinjack View Post
                      Hey American, you just did a huge scientific experiment into the application of a low fat, high sugar, grain based food plan. How do you like the results?
                      Oh they are not able to grasp that the experiment took place, or that their results are related to the experiment. They will continue to act like it's all a big mystery and require more "science" before anything can be concluded.

                      People really are not very smart.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey guys, on the subject of diabetes, there is a doctor fairly close to where I live who runs a clinic for diabetics and has a great blog with many many articles (maybe not as many as Mark, but it's getting up there). His articles are mostly evidence based.

                        Around here, most would believe that diabetes can be reversible/preventable. In the outside world, this is really not the case. Anyways, thought people here would find his blog interesting. I'll just share the posts related to diabetes to keep things relevant for this thread.

                        https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...2d-t2d-part-1/
                        https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...est-lie-t2d-2/
                        https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...diabetes-t2d3/
                        https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...iabetes-t2d-4/

                        Here is a video of him presenting at a grand rounds, which summarizes the above
                        https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...video-lecture/

                        The main point is not that I advocate surgery, but that the thinking around diabetes needs to change. This is a reversible (and therefore of course preventable) disease. This kind of thinking would save trillions of dollars in the Western world if applied.

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                        • #13
                          What evidence is there suggesting this is a "high carb" problem, and not one of added sugars and overprocessing? I imagine someone living on whole fruits and veggies would be much healthier than one eating "low fat" Oreos and things!
                          Music of the day/week/month/whatever:

                          K.A.A.N. - L.T.N. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWocmse1Ef4

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Slowneal View Post
                            Hey guys, on the subject of diabetes, there is a doctor fairly close to where I live who runs a clinic for diabetics and has a great blog with many many articles (maybe not as many as Mark, but it's getting up there). His articles are mostly evidence based.

                            Around here, most would believe that diabetes can be reversible/preventable. In the outside world, this is really not the case. Anyways, thought people here would find his blog interesting. I'll just share the posts related to diabetes to keep things relevant for this thread.

                            https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...2d-t2d-part-1/
                            https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...est-lie-t2d-2/
                            https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...diabetes-t2d3/
                            https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...iabetes-t2d-4/

                            Here is a video of him presenting at a grand rounds, which summarizes the above
                            https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...video-lecture/

                            The main point is not that I advocate surgery, but that the thinking around diabetes needs to change. This is a reversible (and therefore of course preventable) disease. This kind of thinking would save trillions of dollars in the Western world if applied.
                            Good links. Like to see more people catching on and educating cuz I'm too lazy to blog

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nellodee View Post
                              What evidence is there suggesting this is a "high carb" problem, and not one of added sugars and overprocessing? I imagine someone living on whole fruits and veggies would be much healthier than one eating "low fat" Oreos and things!
                              Not necessarily, if fructose per say is linked to insulin resistance and diabetes like some people now feel it is, then a whole fruit & veggies diet would actually prove to be more problematic. *Edit*, I shouldn't say fruits and veggies, but more of a fruit based diet (especially dried fruits); veggies wouldn't be a culprit in this.

                              I do agree, high-carb is not really the problem with diabetes or insulin resistance, it's just "where" the carbs are coming from. Take potatoes and white rice for instance; both of them have little to no fructose in it, but if these are eaten in great quantities with a SAD diet, or even a diet high in fructose from natural sources, I can see people immediately associating high carb with the disease. Which I feel, is simply not the case.
                              Last edited by WestCoastFire; 09-26-2015, 02:50 PM.

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