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  • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I most often cook over an open fire....I.e. BBQ. Either sear quickly or low and slow for several hours. I then refrigerate several pounds of meat and use it throughout the week in various dishes. Cooking over an open fire is reported in a few traditional societies

    Boiling just sooooo sucks all the flavor and joy out of food unless you are using that water in the stew you are making.
    Open fire BBQ is not an option for me, but it definitely has a loooong tradition. IIRC, Jeff Leach wrote that he observed Hadza hunters throwing game directly onto a fire (I'm guessing relatively low-flame with hot coals) mainly to singe the hair off and eating the meat at a level considered "undercooked" in most modern societies. They even only briefly threw a semi-cleaned colon on the fire and then ate it mostly raw, which flabbergasted him.

    Like the trad. Eskimo, Maasai, Irish and others, I enjoy boiled food, especially after trying all-raw and nearly-all-raw for some time, which enhanced my gustatory perception. I do tend to make a lot of stews and soups and use much of the water one way or another. I think it also helps to have been raised in an Irish-American home where boiling (and stewing, steaming and simmering) was common. I have also learned to derive pleasure not just from the way a food tastes, but also for how good it makes me feel. I've been finding the latter to be an effective signaling tool from nature (I don't rely solely on it). I also find that it helps to continue to eat a healthy portion of my food fresh and raw.
    Last edited by Paleophil; 04-27-2016, 05:39 PM.
    Originally posted by tatertot
    Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
    "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

    "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

    Comment


    • Lol maybe because I'm Irish I love boiled food! Yessir boiled meat and potatoes... It's actually so so nice when you just season it right,

      I only eat fried food when I eat out. BBQ cause too many AGE's which (to the best of my knowledge) are so incredibly bad for you, so I try limit it.

      @Neckhammer what evidence is there that the food pyramid is bad? I still think it's good but if there's good evidence to show it's very unhealthy I'm more than willing to change my opinion I always thought that wholegrains were associated with longevity? Sorry I assume wholegrains are your number one problem with it? I also always thought that legumes were like, the healthiest food in the world? That Bluezones study showed all centenarians ate legumes all the time.

      If I'm wrong though please tell me!

      Comment


      • As to the stews and such....love Em. Oddly enough i too am Irish American, with a healthy dose of itilian . I make bone broth from the carcasses each weak and use it throughout.

        Anyway....the food pyramid. Well you ARE on a primal/Paleo website so I assume you know the case against it in general. If not Denice Minger wrote a book titled Death by Food Pyramid that you may find interesting.

        http://www.amazon.com/Death-Food-Pyr...e+food+pyramid

        I bought it when there was a .99 cent special a while back, but I'm afraid that's not likely to happen again soon.

        Comment


        • Thank you! Yes I ate strictly Paleo for over a year because everyone said grains cause inflammation. I proudly stayed away from them for ages but honestly, I just replaced them with fat sources and (whilst it does get rid of water weight) soon realised all that what really mattered for weight management was my calorie consumption... But my psoriasis has cleared up in the last year since going back to "semi normal" eating, so clearly grains aren't so bad for me personally (which is important).

          I'll tell you what converted me. I saw this YouTube channel called "Plant Positive" and watched nearly all his videos. It wasn't enough to turn me vegan, but did change my views a lot. Actually you might be interested to know that Denise Minger plagiarized him in her "in defense of the vegans" blog/video presentation, and gave his research (which cost him dearly) no credit whatsoever. It actually made me have an intense disliking for her honestly, which is why I'd never give her money for that book, it's just a matter of principal. Actually, if you're a nutrition geek like me, I'd really recommend checking out that channel, pretty mind blowing stuff, I just cannot believe how much work he put into it. I'll put a link here with the Denise Minger one if anyone's interested.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeBmbJzKpt8

          Comment


          • Ahh so you have been seduced by the militant vegan propaganda. Well nothing we say here is going to convince you otherwise. I was there 20 years ago. Parting advice.....
            1. A vegetarian/paleo plan with fish, eggs, and dairy can be perfectly healthy.
            2. If you do well enough with grains and legumes I suggest WAPF for traditional preparation methods.
            3. Avoid unfermented soy and vegetable oils
            4. Don't go full vegan.
            Or ignore everything I say and follow PP...he is as biased and invested in veganism as any though.

            I must say you "ate strictly paleo for over a year", but then you stopped.....then you opened an account here and are preaching standard food pyramid and vegan advice. Seems like a strange sort chronology to me. If I where a cynical person the T word may even come to mind
            Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-28-2016, 12:32 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
              As to the stews and such....love Em. Oddly enough i too am Irish American, with a healthy dose of itilian . I make bone broth from the carcasses each weak and use it throughout.

              Anyway....the food pyramid. Well you ARE on a primal/Paleo website so I assume you know the case against it in general. If not Denice Minger wrote a book titled Death by Food Pyramid that you may find interesting.

              http://www.amazon.com/Death-Food-Pyr...e+food+pyramid

              I bought it when there was a .99 cent special a while back, but I'm afraid that's not likely to happen again soon.
              Denise also wrote this: https://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in...hought-part-1/

              She makes a convincing argument that ultra low fat (less than 10% of calories) can also be very healthy. Her comments with regard to fat in the diet... the magic happens below 10% and above 65% with everything in the middle as "swampland" and pretty unhealthy.

              Here is a excerpt from her article:

              Here’s the kicker: the Macronutrient Swampland is where our standard definition of “low fat” squarely lands—30% of calories. When we conduct those “low fat” studies with sucky results, they’re almost always using a fat intake of 30% of calories. When the USDA tells us to eat low fat, they mean 30% of calories. When the American Heart Association tells us to eat low fat, they mean 30% of calories. This number has been parroted far and wide across the Western world, drilled into our noggins, and slapped with a skull and crossbones in the “LOW FAT SCREWED UP AMERICA” narrative.

              The only problem? It’s not actually low fat.

              Cheers,

              Comment


              • ^Yah, I never said I agreed with everything she has written.

                I agree on the magic of hormesis at extremes in short bursts. Calling everything in the middle an unhealthy swampland is not correct though.
                Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-28-2016, 03:46 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chuck_S View Post
                  Denise also wrote this: https://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in...hought-part-1/

                  She makes a convincing argument that ultra low fat (less than 10% of calories) can also be very healthy. Her comments with regard to fat in the diet... the magic happens below 10% and above 65% with everything in the middle as "swampland" and pretty unhealthy.
                  Where did you get that Denise says that fat between 10% and 65% is "pretty unhealthy"?
                  I moved to primalforums.com to escape the spam.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sharperhawk View Post
                    Where did you get that Denise says that fat between 10% and 65% is "pretty unhealthy"?
                    You are correct she didn't come out and say that. Her diagram where she calls the 10%-65% fat the "macronutrient swampland" didn't sound like a healthy place to be. My bad!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                      As to the stews and such....love Em. Oddly enough i too am Irish American, with a healthy dose of itilian . I make bone broth from the carcasses each weak and use it throughout.

                      Anyway....the food pyramid. Well you ARE on a primal/Paleo website so I assume you know the case against it in general. If not Denice Minger wrote a book titled Death by Food Pyramid that you may find interesting.

                      http://www.amazon.com/Death-Food-Pyr...e+food+pyramid

                      I bought it when there was a .99 cent special a while back, but I'm afraid that's not likely to happen again soon.
                      And Italian chefs are world-famous for cooking foods via boiling and other methods to "al dente" perfection, an art mastered over thousands of years.

                      I make and use bone broths too. Sounds like we're actually not that far off in methods.
                      Originally posted by tatertot
                      Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                      "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                      "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        Ahh so you have been seduced by the militant vegan propaganda. Well nothing we say here is going to convince you otherwise. I was there 20 years ago. Parting advice.....
                        You know I thought about that... but I've been banned from nearly every YouTube vegan channel because I'm so critical of them. The second you try and use a reasonable argument against veganism they can't refute they just ban you... they're a bunch of assholes lol. So no, I definitely haven't been seduced by them, if I had been, I'd be a vegan now. Influenced by them? Sure.

                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        1. A vegetarian/paleo plan with fish, eggs, and dairy can be perfectly healthy.
                        2. If you do well enough with grains and legumes I suggest WAPF for traditional preparation methods.
                        3. Avoid unfermented soy and vegetable oils
                        4. Don't go full vegan.
                        Or ignore everything I say and follow PP...he is as biased and invested in veganism as any though.
                        1: Yeah I agree.
                        2: Thanks I do that.
                        3: I never touch soy or oils of any kind, check!
                        4: I'll never go full vegan, I don't think it's healthy and certainly it's too restrictive.
                        It looks we already agree on all those points! Lol I don't know what you mean by "follow" plant positive, I just enjoyed his perspective and to quote Bruce Lee "absorbed what was useful".

                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        I must say you "ate strictly paleo for over a year", but then you stopped.....then you opened an account here and are preaching standard food pyramid and vegan advice. Seems like a strange sort chronology to me. If I where a cynical person the T word may even come to mind
                        Again I'm still heavily influenced by paleo, no oils or junk food etc. I also like the Paleo exercise philosophy of weight training with a lot of walking/some sprinting, I think that's REALLY good advice.

                        I'm just trying to learn as much as I can from everyone, sorry certainly didn't come here to troll or anything, apologies if it sounded that way. My own feeling is that the effects of starches is a bit overblown by Paleo, but didn't Mark S. write recently about the benefits of tubers even?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Paleophil View Post
                          And Italian chefs are world-famous for cooking foods via boiling and other methods to "al dente" perfection, an art mastered over thousands of years.

                          I make and use bone broths too. Sounds like we're actually not that far off in methods.
                          Nah, we are not far off. This goes to EK above as well. I put TONs of bone broth in mashed tubers each week by reducing it significantly. Last I did this I put 2 quarts of broth into making 3 pounds of tators. It's for the whole fam and tends to last 3-4 days. Refridgerated and all so we get all tht RS you kids are so crazy about these days
                          I don't eat anywhere near the copious amounts of some, but they get thrown in the mix.
                          Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-29-2016, 05:17 AM.

                          Comment


                          • My enthusiasm for RS lies in between the two extremes. I have found it to be beneficial, but I am not thrilled with raw Bob's Red Mill potato starch, both because I have seen a small number of negative reports and because of the theoretical concern of potential problems from chronic persorption of big doses of large particles combined with the fact that it's a new therapy without a long-term track record of safety and effectiveness. Given that the worse case scenarios are severe (such as heart attack or stroke--which is why Breadsauce's report is particularly concerning to me, though RS proponents would probably accuse me of hysterics), I would rather err on the side of caution. My hunch is that people who have done chronic keto/VLC for years are at higher risk of negative effects, and these are the very folks (like me) who tend to have the biggest interest and incentive in trying BRM.

                            Persorption tends to get dismissed or ignored whenever someone tries to discuss it, but I have not seen any convincing refutations of the theoretical concern--not even Duck Dodgers' valiant attempts. I think it will eventually be recognized as a significant factor to consider.

                            There is a potential win-win solution to enable using starch powders/flours while reducing the potential risks--use smaller-particle starch powders/flours (including even home-made, if one wishes) and use them temporarily or intermittently, rather than chronically.
                            Last edited by Paleophil; 04-29-2016, 06:41 AM.
                            Originally posted by tatertot
                            Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                            "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                            "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                            Comment


                            • I'm a bit confused, what is RS? What does it have to do with the OP's heart attack?

                              Comment


                              • RS stands for resistant starch. Huge doses of large starch particles were reportedly found to clog up arterioles in mice and humans, though the evidence is scanty as it hasn't been studied much and some of the reports are uncontrolled lab experiments, rather than clinical trials. The arterioles eventually clear, but if one keeps consuming large doses of large-particle foods, then presumably the body won't have time to completely clear out the particles. One could theoretically end up with chronically-blocked arterioles, which could then contribute to infarction or stroke. I'm not a scientist, so my understanding of it all is primitive.
                                Originally posted by tatertot
                                Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                                "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                                "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                                Comment

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