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Had heart attack on Sunday 22nd

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  • #46
    Originally posted by OnTheBayou View Post
    Friend, one of the reasons that I love Mark Sisson, besides the fact that I consider his advice saving my life, is that you don't even need to buy his books or products. He puts it all up here on the website for free. All your questions and many more can be answered by doing your own poking around.
    I just looked up the question "I had a heart attack following your advice, what do I do now?" It wasn't there.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by NewOldGuy View Post
      Yep, don't bother trying to convince the vegan troll. They post those discredited theories repeatedly.
      Tell all the people who have reversed their heart disease following Esselstyn's diet that it's been discredited. I'm sure they will be devastated.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Kasey View Post
        Tell all the people who have reversed their heart disease following Esselstyn's diet that it's been discredited. I'm sure they will be devastated.
        You should educate yourself a bit more. There are beneficial aspects to the Esselstyn protocol, and they have nothing to do with eliminating animal products from the diet. The cause/effect attribution used to promote the diet is 100% wrong.

        Your statements attributing artery disease to saturated fat and animal products also have no basis in any study ever done on diet and disease. There is zero correlation between eating animal products or cholesterol consumption, with heart disease or mortality. But there is in fact a strong correlation with problems caused by eliminating animal products.

        The top diet changes that actually affect cardiac health are shared by Paleo and Esselstyn:
        1. Eliminate refined sugar
        2. Eliminate refined grains/flour
        3. Eliminate industrial seed oils and trans fats, (and inadvertently most O6 fat).

        They also share other non-diet lifestyle changes. But Esselstyn's elimination of animal products has no bearing on the benefits of his diet. He is just one of several celebrity doctors still clinging to the old Ancel Keys theories that many, many published studies have now discredited.
        Last edited by NewOldGuy; 01-04-2016, 10:53 AM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Kasey, if you're so sure that Esselstyn's method is the best, please post the evidence you found most convincing. I'm skeptical, but I'm willing to be convinced if the evidence is really that good.
          My opinions and some justification

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Kasey View Post
            His levels aren't normal. Even according to mainstream doctors, his number of 208 mg is in the high risk category. You aren't safe from heart attacks until you are below 150 mg. I've never heard of someone having a heart attack with numbers that low who didn't have prior heart disease.
            if you are basing your advice and actions on the total cholesterol number, i'm sorry, but you're going down the wrong path.

            as for *that*? until the invention of statins, <250 was considered a normal read. with the push from big pharma the number continues to be pushed down. fwiw, it's the ratios, not the total, that matter.

            http://dietheartpublishing.com/Cholesterol/10/09


            A nationwide study conducted by UCLA School of Medicine found that 75 percent of patients hospitalized for a heart attack had LDL cholesterol within the so called safe range - below 130 mg/dl. (21 percent of the patients were taking a statin cholesterol-lowering drug.) Even more astounding, 50 percent of patients had LDL less than 100 mg/dL - considered optimal levels! The mean LDL cholesterol among the hospitalized patients was 104.9 mg/dL.

            >>snip>>

            Or, heart attacks suffered by 136,905 patients in an American Heart Association data base of 541 hospitals across the country did not reveal an association between elevated cholesterol and heart attacks.
            http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/low...-heart-attack/

            A recent study in Critical Care Medicine (43:1255-1264, 2015) is titled, “Lipid Paradox in Acute Myocardial Infarction- The Association with 30-Day In-Hospital Mortality.” This study followed 724 hospitalized patients who suffered an acute heart attack (i.e., myocardial infarction). The scientists attempted to clarify the relationship between the lipid profiles and the 30-day mortality in patients who suffered a heart attack.

            The authors found that those with lower LDL-cholesterol and triglyceride levels had a significantly elevated mortality risk when compared to patients with higher LDL-cholesterol and triglyceride levels. In fact, lower LDL-cholesterol less than 110 mmg/dl and triglyceride less than 62.5 mmg/dl were identified as optimal threshold values for predicting 30-day mortality. The lower LDL-cholesterol level was associated with a 65% increased mortality and the lower triglyceride level was associated with a 405% increased mortality. Furthermore, as compared to patients with LDL-cholesterol levels >110mg/dl and triglycerides >62.5 mg/dl, those with lowered LDL and triglyceride levels had a 990% (or 10.9x) increased risk for mortality.
            you haven't found evidence of low cholesterol patients having heart attacks because you haven't looked.

            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

            – Ernest Hemingway

            Comment


            • #51
              I'm with Kasey on this one.. I'm starting to believe more and more into what Esselstyn is saying and his results looks very good.

              But I'm a firm believer that what works for you, may not work for me. I have not seen any health improvements on this lifestyle. In fact, just the opposite.

              Comment


              • #52
                Here are my suggestions in terms of supplementation.

                Vitamin D3
                Vitamin K2
                Magnesium (Magnesium Taurate is good for heart health if I recall correctly. The Both the Magnesium and the Taurate. I think thats how you spell it)
                Potassium
                Iodine

                (^ A lot of these should come easily through diet if you eat properly. Magnesium from nuts and leafy greens. Potassium from fruits and veggies. Vitamin D from certain foods but sun is best bet obviously. Supplementation is recommended during winter or in certain locations.)

                All of these are critical for proper dissolving of calcium in the blood and overall circulation

                Thyroid and Kidneys are also crucial to make sure calcium is being dissolved in the blood and properly distributed where it needs to go, instead of clogging your arteries.

                Add enough carbs into your diet so that you can reach maximum Thyroid function and get the metabolism up to proper speed.


                I don't think any doctor would be opposed to any of the supplements I just listed above. I would recommend getting iodine through diet or kelp poweder as opposed to artificial iodine supplements.

                Another thing to look into perhaps is nattokinase and other similar enzymes. Nattokinase is found in Natto, which is fermented soy beans. Helps promote healthy blood circulation and naturally aids the bodies ability to break down and dissolve blood clots and keep the arteries clear and free of debris

                Best of luck to you. I'm sorry to hear about this

                Edit: I forgot to mention regular exercise is crucial. Whether it is short but intense like sprints or long long steady walks for circulation
                Last edited by purplegorilla; 01-04-2016, 11:35 AM.

                Comment


                • #53

                  >>About 80 million U.S. adults have high blood pressure. That’s about 33
                  percent. About 77 percent of those are using antihypertensive medication, but
                  only 54 of those have their condition controlled.
                  >>About 69 percent of people who have a first heart attack, 77 percent of
                  people who have a first stroke and 74 percent who have congestive heart
                  failure have blood pressure higher than 140/90 mm Hg.
                  https://www.heart.org/idc/groups/aha...ucm_470704.pdf
                  As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                  – Ernest Hemingway

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Also, if I may chime in on the essyltein issue...


                    Allow me to try and find some middle ground here.

                    I think going vegan or vegetarian is INADVISABLE. I believe most people here would agree with me that animal protein is critical for maximum human health.

                    There are also incredible benefits related to eating a plant based diet. These results are quite remarkable however, and generally short-lived. Once the person is on a plant based diet for long enough, their body eventually consumes all if it's reserves of brain healthy essential fatty acids. If you refrain from ingesting any animal protein/fats, you will be consuming your own reserve. AKA, yourself. You will be consuming yourself. Once its gone, its gone for good. Until you start eating animals again, of course.


                    Perhaps a more traditional primal diet of high fat, moderate protein, and low carb is NOT advisable for someone who is predisposed to heart/other related health issues. Those of us with a family history of heart disease MIGHT be better off with a more moderate primal diet. One with LESS emphasis on animal products and MORE emphasis on fruits, veggies, and tubers. Eat fewer animal products and more plants. Stock up on that crucial, crucial potassium which is critical for heart health.

                    But removing all animal products all together in my opinion is insanity and would benefit nobody. Regardless of if you have no family history of heart disease or if you do.

                    Anybody agree?

                    DID I FORGET TO MENTION THAT STRESS IS A LARGE FACTOR IN INFLAMMATION AND GENERAL HEALTH/MORTALITY? RELAX AND DONT STRESS. Having a clear mind and a clear heart is essential for this. Food for thought...
                    Last edited by purplegorilla; 01-04-2016, 11:52 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Had heart attack on Sunday 22nd

                      Sorry to read of your heart attack.

                      Some things that came to mind:

                      Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                      I am 63 years old, male, slim (150 lbs)
                      6 feet tall
                      Sounds underweight - is there enough muscle on you?

                      Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                      apart from sever asthma, I had always thought of myself as pretty fit.
                      Have you considered a link between having asthma (severe) and heart-disease/heart-attack?

                      Assuming more medication is used for severe cases what about a link of the asthma medication use and heart-disease/heart-attack?

                      On another note what levels of stress have you experienced over the years? : Work, family, exercise extremes etc?

                      Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                      Of course, friends are already mentioning my sat fat diet!
                      You'll get that throughout your life even if you're healthy and eating that way - I find it's often from people that have health issues and eat a bit of junk.

                      Any way the best of luck and health to you in the future.
                      Last edited by EatMoveSleep; 01-04-2016, 01:44 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by purplegorilla View Post
                        I believe most people here would agree with me that animal protein is critical for maximum human health.
                        Where does that leave Breadsauce who's suffered a heart attack already after years on a high fat meat based diet (based on many of his threads over the last 5 years)?

                        What about another one of us here whose thread details how she suffered horrendous kidney stones just last month? This is after years on this meat centered paleo/primal diet. Guess what kidney.org and the NIDDK recommend for those who've had kidney stones? You guessed it - 'limiting animal protein'.

                        So rather than being 'critical for maximum health', it appears to be just the opposite, animal protein and the associated saturated fats seem to be a strong contributory factor to failing health.
                        Last edited by KimLean125byMar15; 01-04-2016, 04:36 PM.
                        *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
                        *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
                        *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                          if you are basing your advice and actions on the total cholesterol number, i'm sorry, but you're going down the wrong path.

                          as for *that*? until the invention of statins, <250 was considered a normal read. with the push from big pharma the number continues to be pushed down. fwiw, it's the ratios, not the total, that matter.

                          you haven't found evidence of low cholesterol patients having heart attacks because you haven't looked.
                          There seems to be plenty of evidence that 'normal' levels are not low enough.

                          http://nutritionfacts.org/video/ever...heart-disease/
                          http://nutritionfacts.org/video/opti...-straight-doc/
                          http://nutritionfacts.org/video/chol...artery-lining/
                          *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
                          *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
                          *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            nope. i stopped at 40 seconds on the first one because he's blathering on about total cholesterol.

                            58673650.jpg

                            neither of us is going to convince the other so can we just stop trying?
                            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                            – Ernest Hemingway

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by KimLean125byMar15 View Post
                              There seems to be plenty of evidence that 'normal' levels are not low enough.
                              So this guy's video blog is the evidence?

                              Seems a little weak next to the multiple studies confirming that total cholesterol level is not useful as a health or disease indicator. Most cardiologists don't even use that number any more.
                              Last edited by NewOldGuy; 01-04-2016, 05:35 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by NewOldGuy View Post
                                You should educate yourself a bit more. There are beneficial aspects to the Esselstyn protocol, and they have nothing to do with eliminating animal products from the diet. The cause/effect attribution used to promote the diet is 100% wrong.

                                Your statements attributing artery disease to saturated fat and animal products also have no basis in any study ever done on diet and disease. There is zero correlation between eating animal products or cholesterol consumption, with heart disease or mortality. But there is in fact a strong correlation with problems caused by eliminating animal products.

                                The top diet changes that actually affect cardiac health are shared by Paleo and Esselstyn:
                                1. Eliminate refined sugar
                                2. Eliminate refined grains/flour
                                3. Eliminate industrial seed oils and trans fats, (and inadvertently most O6 fat).

                                They also share other non-diet lifestyle changes. But Esselstyn's elimination of animal products has no bearing on the benefits of his diet. He is just one of several celebrity doctors still clinging to the old Ancel Keys theories that many, many published studies have now discredited.
                                That's what literally every paleo dieter says lol. Correlation doesn't equal causation, and you never disprove anything or provide any paleo studies reversing heart disease. What you are actually saying is, Esselstyn's program works, but it's probably not due to his diet in your super awesome opinion. I didn't know you were so involved in his studies that you were able to isolate all the variables and come to that conclusion. Must have been exhaustive research

                                The reality is, it does work. And I bet if you replicated his program, but changed his diet to The Primal Blueprint, you would have many deaths on your hand.

                                Comment

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