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Had heart attack on Sunday 22nd

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  • #76
    Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
    there is so much goodness in fish, shellfish and eggs, i'd hate to see you minimize those in lieu of leaves. something like an oyster is chock full of essential minerals (iron, zinc, iodine, etc.) and in the optimal ratios for the human body to absorb them properly. perhaps consider using less added fats when you cook?

    good luck.
    That makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by sharperhawk View Post
      Whatever approach you take, I think it's important to have some measures that can track your health over time. Just waiting to see whether you have another heart attack is not a good idea.

      I'm pretty sure I will be carefully monitored over the next 12 months - during which time, I shall see what I can do by way of tracking my health myself. Thanks for the suggestion.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by NewOldGuy View Post
        I did that with paleo and in a shorter time. Eliminating the three biggies along with exercise and a few supplements, will work for most otherwise healthy people. Esselstyn's subjects eliminated the big 3 too. Quitting meat probably didn't contribute to the improvement.
        And you have pictures to prove that? Or should we take your word for it? With all your studies, and mine, you are the one who has actually had a heart attack so if I'm an outsider looking in, I sure as heck wouldn't be taking your advice over people like Esselstyn and other vegan doctors who keep getting results with the theories you claim are debunked.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by noodletoy View Post


          most of those boys were heavy smokers and grew up eating margarine instead of butter.
          Proof? And if they ate meat and margarine, it was the margarine that caused their health issues right?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Elliot View Post
            I agree that the image in the article is appealing, but it's not really meaningful. Is this an experiment? What is the control group? Is that image representative of everyone's experience, or did he pick out an outlier?
            How is it not meaningful? A person had clogged arteries, went plant based and it reversed. That's pretty impressive to me. He is duplicating his results over and over again, if it was just one person, no one would continue to follow his program and have success, but they are.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
              Don't load up on bacon sausages or other fatty stuff, eat fish and seafood twice a week, red meat or liver once or twice, chicken or whatever creature with wings two and one day with milk and eggs or vegetarian. Eat PLENTY of cooked AND raw vegetables, some fruits as well. Eat around 30 gram of gelatin per day and stay well hydrated. Eat starchy foods once a day. Thats it, vegetarianism is overrated, but eat your veggies, lots of them...
              That's basically exactly what he was doing lol... Unreal.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                I shall read this with great interest. I'm pretty sure that I've made the great mistake of thinking that if sat fat, instead of being bad
                has been wrongly vilified, then more fat must be better than some fat. And so much of what I've read along the way has encouraged me in this approach.
                I shall reduce all fat (but avoid industrially produced seed oils. Olive oil good, soy oil bad!). But not animal fats totally. Increase raw veg (I've never really liked salad etc but will add some to my food intake). Continue to avoid wheat and all gluten containing products (they flare asthma up for me anyway). Reduce dependence on meat / fish/ eggs / poultry, which may have been too great a proportion of my diet add and add yet more veg (I have way over the 5 portions per day already).
                And continue to read and try to make sense of the conflicting ideas which abound in the arena of health and diet.
                But Esselstyn etc - I believe some animal produce is essential to optimal health, and I remain unconvinced that a diet based on vegetable / fruit is adequate. And yes, I've read a a lot about this over the years. And increase exercise, which has never been a great part of my life (again, due to asthma and the fact that I believed regular walking would be enough).
                Thanks for all off the input - I'll be reading masses for weeks!
                A step in the right direction for sure But to say animal products are necessary for health is just turning a blind eye to all the thriving vegans out there. When you search for high carb vegans on youtube, you find vibrant healthy people including myself who have reversed serious chronic health conditions. If meat was essential, this wouldn't be happening. I'm not saying you can't be healthy with some meat, but to say it's necessary is not true. And for someone with heart disease, it's very risky to consume.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                  there is so much goodness in fish, shellfish and eggs, i'd hate to see you minimize those in lieu of leaves. something like an oyster is chock full of essential minerals (iron, zinc, iodine, etc.) and in the optimal ratios for the human body to absorb them properly. perhaps consider using less added fats when you cook?

                  good luck.
                  He's been eating all those foods. Maybe not so beneficial? I like your guess at the end as to what might help him though.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                    Don't load up on bacon sausages or other fatty stuff, eat fish and seafood twice a week, red meat or liver once or twice, chicken or whatever creature with wings two and one day with milk and eggs or vegetarian. Eat PLENTY of cooked AND raw vegetables, some fruits as well. Eat around 30 gram of gelatin per day and stay well hydrated. Eat starchy foods once a day. Thats it, vegetarianism is overrated, but eat your veggies, lots of them...
                    Originally posted by Kasey View Post
                    That's basically exactly what he was doing lol... Unreal.
                    Actually, no Kasey, that's not what Breadsauce was doing at all. By his own account, even though he eats veggies, he said his food was centered around meat and fat, which to me suggests most if not all meals. What Gorbag is suggesting is red meat, chicken, dairy and eggs about once or twice a week, and seafood about twice a week. That would be a very significant change from what breadsauce was doing and I think it's actually very good advice.

                    I also support his advice to eat plenty of both cooked and raw veggies, plus starchy foods. Potatoes, rice, oatmeal, all kinds of beans and lentils, all kinds of veggies and fruits etc, there's more to plant food than raw salads and leafy greens.
                    Last edited by KimLean125byMar15; 01-06-2016, 08:12 AM.
                    *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
                    *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
                    *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

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                    • #85
                      Don't know if this has been posted yet: You cannot reverse arteril blockages that accumulates due to prior high carbohydrate/poor dieting. If the blockage is removed and you continue your lchf diet you will not have any future problems that aren't unrelated to your previous dietary habits.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Kasey View Post
                        Proof? And if they ate meat and margarine, it was the margarine that caused their health issues right?
                        even your beloved esselstyn bangs the drum against vegetable oil.

                        http://econ.ucsb.edu/~kelly/vets1104.pdf

                        Perhaps more importantly, we show that a large fraction, 35-79 percent, of the
                        excess veteran deaths due to heart disease and lung cancer are attributable to military induced
                        smoking.
                        http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/1...rean-war/?_r=0

                        8 in 10 soldiers in the korean war had cvd.
                        http://www.lungcanceralliance.org/sp...-exposure.html

                        The percentage of active duty military who ever smoked was highest during the Korean and Vietnam Wars (75%).
                        you know that until 1975, soldiers serving overseas got free cigarettes, right? you're truly suggesting that eating meat is more dangerous than smoking?


                        Originally posted by Kasey View Post
                        A step in the right direction for sure But to say animal products are necessary for health is just turning a blind eye to all the thriving vegans out there. When you search for high carb vegans on youtube, you find vibrant healthy people including myself who have reversed serious chronic health conditions. If meat was essential, this wouldn't be happening. I'm not saying you can't be healthy with some meat, but to say it's necessary is not true. And for someone with heart disease, it's very risky to consume.
                        youtube testimonials are now the basis for conclusive proof? you can find just as many videos on there for people who gained weight and got sick trying to be vegan. you can also find videos saying 9/11 was an inside job. please get a grip. we evolved as omnivores. any diet that excludes animal protein is not natural to a human, nor beneficial in the long-term.

                        Originally posted by Kasey View Post
                        He's been eating all those foods. Maybe not so beneficial? I like your guess at the end as to what might help him though.
                        based on the u.s. per capita consumption, i doubt the op has been eating much fish at all. looks like the op has been eating lots of meat and fat and not exercising all that much.

                        look, i don't run around any vegan fora proselytizing that y'all will die without a daily ribeye. it's entirely possible for the op to get healthy without living on an ascetic monastic diet of lentils and kale.
                        Last edited by noodletoy; 01-06-2016, 08:53 AM.
                        As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                        – Ernest Hemingway

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by KimLean125byMar15 View Post
                          At least it was practical and supported by the evidence linked. And whether the OP is interested in it or not, it seemed to have worked for those like him who've had heart attacks. Maybe it will interest other passers-by. Also, it answered the OP's direct question which was: "I am utterly confused as to why this should happen? Any ideas where I have gone wrong?"

                          I gave him my 2c. What's your idea? Primal a little bit harder? Your only contribution so far was to tell him that he got the date of his heart attack wrong. Really helpful....
                          That's just it, Kim. I'm not advising him. A heart attack is not in the same category as losing weight when it comes to asking friend's what to do. He can do HIS research, perhaps ask some pointed questions for answers, see how they interact with his physicians.

                          "Should I get on statins?" for example. There, we could link to many sources perhaps better informed that a busy doctor stuck in his habits.

                          As noted above, Dr. E's diet has been thoroughly debunked.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Fine. You go right ahead paying 50% more for worse outcomes that those "statist" hospitals.

                            And if you think that the doctors and researchers in all those "statist" health care systems don't contribute new ideas, inventions, drugs, or procedures, I can tell you what "News" channel you watch. And they do it often without any personal gain. Like, you know, for the love of humanity?

                            Open you mind, please. Even if you don't agree with my belief in universal health care as best for society, at least don't just accept others lies and distortions.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Kasey View Post
                              I just looked up the question "I had a heart attack following your advice, what do I do now?" It wasn't there.
                              Um, narrow your search? Or are you pulling my leg?

                              Just on this site, a search for "thyroid" got 8,850 hits.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Gaz88 View Post
                                "in the early hours - taken to coronary care unit in Frimley Park Hospital, apparently I had a blocked RH coronary artery (?)as well as "severe arterial plaque" and narrowing of the artery"


                                Hi Breadsauce,

                                It's amazing when you hear a story like yours, especially when it's so close to home. When I read "Frimley Park Hospital" my jaw nearly hit my knee. I live within a 2 minute walk from the hospital, so it automatically caught my attention. I hope you're on the road to recovery.

                                I guess the other reason I'm hooked is, that I have slightly higher cholesterol numbers to you and I have noticed that my fitness levels have unbelievably dipped in the last couple of years, with real heavy legs during exercise, breathlessness even after walking up a couple of flight of stairs and even struggling to complete a 2 mile run. I'm 38, 5'9, 154lbs, so I'm slim but I fear that I could be heading down the same road as you.

                                I have ALWAYS eaten eggs, chicken, butter, milk and I'm starting to think this diet/lifestyle is not for me. I don't want to experience what you have, so I'm going to look at a different path.

                                Would love to hear how you're getting on and what or if you are doing different.

                                Gaz
                                One thing the Primal community came to terms with years ago is that indeed we are all different in matters of health. Sure, we all have a certain mandatory core, but then things get rather trickier when it comes to individuals.

                                You didn't mention your macro nutrient quantities by intention, weight, or percentages. There is LOTS of good evidence that if you aren't trying to lose weight, up to about 25%/100g a day of non-inflammatory carbs keeps many people healthier. Go read online about the Perfect Health Diet.

                                IIRC, even Mark thinks 100g a day of carbs isn't a problem, even when trying to lose weight. Although the loss will be slower than with fewer carbs.

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