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Had heart attack on Sunday 22nd

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  • breadsauce
    started a topic Had heart attack on Sunday 22nd

    Had heart attack on Sunday 22nd

    in the early hours - taken to coronary care unit in Frimley Park Hospital, apparently I had a blocked RH coronary artery (?)as well as "severe arterial plaque" and narrowing of the artery.

    A catheter was inserted into my right wrist, clot sorted out (how do they do that?) and a stent fitted. I am now back home with loads of tablets, etc etc (including a statin which I don't want and will stop once I've had my various follow up consultancies, cardiac rehab etc etc). And of course, dietary advice recommends "vegetable oils", avoid sat fats, eat heart healthy grains, avoid red meat - all the stuff I don't believe in.

    I've been 'paleo" / "primal" for quite a lot of years now - initially VLC, then added white potatoes, occasional white rice and occasional (well soaked) legumes. I eat fish, organic grass fed beef, lamb and free range chicken, loads of organic veg, organic fruit, butter from grass fed cows, organic beef fat from grass fed cattle, olive oil, lots of herbs, spices, turmeric, organic cocoa powder and chocolate, loads of eggs, some cheese from grass fed cattle - all sat fat but not to excess.

    After the stent fitting etc, while in hospital, I was told that my total cholesterol level was 5.4 (UK, so no information on LDL /HDL levels) which I thought was OK? . I am utterly confused as to why this should happen? Any ideas where I have gone wrong?

    I am 63 years old, male, slim (150 lbs) 6 feet tall and, apart from sever asthma, I had always thought of myself as pretty fit. Of course, friends are already mentioning my sat fat diet! I don't intend to change this - but should I be unlucky enough to ever have another heart attack and not survive - I will have been a standing example to the "sceptics" that Ancel Keys et al were correct all along!!!

    And I must say, it is my first experience of an NHS hospital as a consumer and I simply cannot praise it enough. They even provided me with a gluten free diet an it was all very edible.
    Last edited by breadsauce; 12-24-2015, 10:14 AM.

  • mariobryant
    replied
    It is well known fact that most of us are dying due to poor heart health. It is very important to keep your heart healthy if you want to live long life. It’s clear that healthy eating and living (like exercising) can make a huge difference. Eating healthy foods can make our heart health and yes, you are right we have to maintain our health and we should think twice before we eat anything unhealthy. Eating heart healthy foods are the best way to protect our heart. Of course we should not forget about the tablets by which we can maintain our heart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ramer864
    replied
    Mailibu, this is not a political discussion. http://www.tykeanimal.com

    Leave a comment:


  • RobMcGill
    replied
    Originally posted by ToldUzo View Post

    Trans fats naturally occuring in cheese etc. are not the same as artificial manmade trans fats like in margarine:
    https://chriskresser.com/can-some-tr...ts-be-healthy/


    When it comes to the trans fat in meats/dairy, I know if I go buy a grass fed steak from a butcher it hasn't undergone any significant amount of processing. When you look at a cheese product in a store you really have no idea what kind of journey it went through and what was done to it for longer shelf life. It may or may not be healthy but like I said cheese or dairy products is not a point I'd argue over from a health perspective, especially since I have long living family members that eat cheese. However, humans have not been farming milk for the majority of our history. It's keto friendly for sure, but I don't see it as a paleo food. Avoiding cheese is just a personal preference, I have no idea if it's bad for us.

    As far as the man made fats go I completely agree. I haven't had margarine in about a decade, I'll even refuse to eat foods at family members houses if they use it. Makes me look like a bit of a snob, but the stuff just disgusts me lol.

    My favorite cooking oil/fats in order are avocado, grass fed beef tallow(I make my own), coconut oil, and the olive oil. I favor the higher smoke point healthy oils first, and then nutrient content. Olive Oil can be unhealthy if heated beyond a safe temperature. Avocado is safe to 500 degrees though.

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  • ToldUzo
    replied
    Originally posted by RobMcGill View Post
    Limit foods high in toxins, get a healthy micro biome, and take your doctors advice on the fat intake. I personally avoid cheese completely, I'm not sure why some people say it's paleo. Humans have only been consuming dairy for a couple thousand years, and most cheeses(maybe all) contain trans fat. Honestly I don't know for sure that cheese is bad, it's my personal choice. My grandfather is 95 with no heart disease and still eating cheese so who knows.
    Trans fats naturally occuring in cheese etc. are not the same as artificial manmade trans fats like in margarine:
    https://chriskresser.com/can-some-tr...ts-be-healthy/


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  • RobMcGill
    replied
    It's quite difficult to pick the right way of eating with so much conflicting information out there. I've been low carb/high protein, ketogenic, and paleo. I'm currently doing a lot of research into vegan diets. Although I currently follow the paleo lifestyle as closely as possible.

    You can learn a lot from vegans even if their data is cherry picked in a lot of cases. One discovery I made researching them is that the damage caused to vessels/arteries when consuming fats/meats is caused by endotoxins. They say meat is high in endotoxins and that's why meat is bad. But that isn't the whole story.

    There are three important discoveries I made...
    1. All processed or dead foods will begin accumulating endotoxins produced by bacteria(Not just meat). It is basically a factor of time and exposure to oxygen. Ground meats, sausages, bacon, deli meats, smoked foods, etc... will also be relatively high in endotoxins and result in artery inflammation/damage. Whereas a fresh cut of steak has absolutely no trace of endotoxins.
    2. If your gut biome is not full of healthy bacteria is likely had bad bacteria which produce endotoxins.
    3. Most importantly, fat is the primary transporter of endotoxins into the bloodstream from intestines. So if you are consuming these blood vessel damaging toxins, then you consume fats then it is taking in the toxins with the healthy fats. No matter how healthy the fats are.


    None of this means fats are bad, in fact it is my belief they are healthy. However knowing that damaging toxins are fat soluble and allow them to be absorbed through intestinal wall is important. Endotoxins are actually relatively weak toxins that our immune system can control unless over consumed. But over consumption for a lifetime will eventually lead to heart disease.

    Limit foods high in toxins, get a healthy micro biome, and take your doctors advice on the fat intake. I personally avoid cheese completely, I'm not sure why some people say it's paleo. Humans have only been consuming dairy for a couple thousand years, and most cheeses(maybe all) contain trans fat. Honestly I don't know for sure that cheese is bad, it's my personal choice. My grandfather is 95 with no heart disease and still eating cheese so who knows.

    Disclaimer
    All I want to point out is that endotoxins are bad and fat acts as the transporter. While I believe fats themselves are still healthy from the right sources(Fish/Grass Fed Beef), I am not attempting to prove that here. The scientific data to prove that might not even exist yet.

    This is my research I've done for my own well being, I hope you've found it helpful.

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  • breadsauce
    replied


    Originally posted by Eoin Kenny View Post
    Also avoid frying because it really needs fats which are all processed anyway, plus the high temperatures seem to promote bad things. Am I still one of the few who boils everything these days?
    I use beef or pork fat for frying - which is a natural, pretty much unprocessed fat. Or extra virgin olive oil.

    Leave a comment:


  • alibryrh
    replied
    New Old Guy....thanks for sharing your story, it has been very helpful to me. Can you tell me how much and what kinds of fruit you eat now? Seeing that you include rice and potatoes I am guesssing fruit is fine?

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  • Eoin Kenny
    replied
    Thanks for the explanation!

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  • Paleophil
    replied
    RS stands for resistant starch. Huge doses of large starch particles were reportedly found to clog up arterioles in mice and humans, though the evidence is scanty as it hasn't been studied much and some of the reports are uncontrolled lab experiments, rather than clinical trials. The arterioles eventually clear, but if one keeps consuming large doses of large-particle foods, then presumably the body won't have time to completely clear out the particles. One could theoretically end up with chronically-blocked arterioles, which could then contribute to infarction or stroke. I'm not a scientist, so my understanding of it all is primitive.

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  • Eoin Kenny
    replied
    I'm a bit confused, what is RS? What does it have to do with the OP's heart attack?

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  • Paleophil
    replied
    My enthusiasm for RS lies in between the two extremes. I have found it to be beneficial, but I am not thrilled with raw Bob's Red Mill potato starch, both because I have seen a small number of negative reports and because of the theoretical concern of potential problems from chronic persorption of big doses of large particles combined with the fact that it's a new therapy without a long-term track record of safety and effectiveness. Given that the worse case scenarios are severe (such as heart attack or stroke--which is why Breadsauce's report is particularly concerning to me, though RS proponents would probably accuse me of hysterics), I would rather err on the side of caution. My hunch is that people who have done chronic keto/VLC for years are at higher risk of negative effects, and these are the very folks (like me) who tend to have the biggest interest and incentive in trying BRM.

    Persorption tends to get dismissed or ignored whenever someone tries to discuss it, but I have not seen any convincing refutations of the theoretical concern--not even Duck Dodgers' valiant attempts. I think it will eventually be recognized as a significant factor to consider.

    There is a potential win-win solution to enable using starch powders/flours while reducing the potential risks--use smaller-particle starch powders/flours (including even home-made, if one wishes) and use them temporarily or intermittently, rather than chronically.
    Last edited by Paleophil; 04-29-2016, 06:41 AM.

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  • Neckhammer
    replied
    Originally posted by Paleophil View Post
    And Italian chefs are world-famous for cooking foods via boiling and other methods to "al dente" perfection, an art mastered over thousands of years.

    I make and use bone broths too. Sounds like we're actually not that far off in methods.
    Nah, we are not far off. This goes to EK above as well. I put TONs of bone broth in mashed tubers each week by reducing it significantly. Last I did this I put 2 quarts of broth into making 3 pounds of tators. It's for the whole fam and tends to last 3-4 days. Refridgerated and all so we get all tht RS you kids are so crazy about these days
    I don't eat anywhere near the copious amounts of some, but they get thrown in the mix.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-29-2016, 05:17 AM.

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  • Eoin Kenny
    replied
    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Ahh so you have been seduced by the militant vegan propaganda. Well nothing we say here is going to convince you otherwise. I was there 20 years ago. Parting advice.....
    You know I thought about that... but I've been banned from nearly every YouTube vegan channel because I'm so critical of them. The second you try and use a reasonable argument against veganism they can't refute they just ban you... they're a bunch of assholes lol. So no, I definitely haven't been seduced by them, if I had been, I'd be a vegan now. Influenced by them? Sure.

    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    1. A vegetarian/paleo plan with fish, eggs, and dairy can be perfectly healthy.
    2. If you do well enough with grains and legumes I suggest WAPF for traditional preparation methods.
    3. Avoid unfermented soy and vegetable oils
    4. Don't go full vegan.
    Or ignore everything I say and follow PP...he is as biased and invested in veganism as any though.
    1: Yeah I agree.
    2: Thanks I do that.
    3: I never touch soy or oils of any kind, check!
    4: I'll never go full vegan, I don't think it's healthy and certainly it's too restrictive.
    It looks we already agree on all those points! Lol I don't know what you mean by "follow" plant positive, I just enjoyed his perspective and to quote Bruce Lee "absorbed what was useful".

    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I must say you "ate strictly paleo for over a year", but then you stopped.....then you opened an account here and are preaching standard food pyramid and vegan advice. Seems like a strange sort chronology to me. If I where a cynical person the T word may even come to mind
    Again I'm still heavily influenced by paleo, no oils or junk food etc. I also like the Paleo exercise philosophy of weight training with a lot of walking/some sprinting, I think that's REALLY good advice.

    I'm just trying to learn as much as I can from everyone, sorry certainly didn't come here to troll or anything, apologies if it sounded that way. My own feeling is that the effects of starches is a bit overblown by Paleo, but didn't Mark S. write recently about the benefits of tubers even?

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  • Paleophil
    replied
    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    As to the stews and such....love Em. Oddly enough i too am Irish American, with a healthy dose of itilian . I make bone broth from the carcasses each weak and use it throughout.

    Anyway....the food pyramid. Well you ARE on a primal/Paleo website so I assume you know the case against it in general. If not Denice Minger wrote a book titled Death by Food Pyramid that you may find interesting.

    http://www.amazon.com/Death-Food-Pyr...e+food+pyramid

    I bought it when there was a .99 cent special a while back, but I'm afraid that's not likely to happen again soon.
    And Italian chefs are world-famous for cooking foods via boiling and other methods to "al dente" perfection, an art mastered over thousands of years.

    I make and use bone broths too. Sounds like we're actually not that far off in methods.

    Leave a comment:

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