Ad Widget

Collapse

seeking protien info and reputable macro info

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • seeking protien info and reputable macro info

    hi everyone, I've been following along for a few years now and in last 3 years I have gone wheat free and sugar free and lost 30 pounds. I also put my insulin resistance into remission going as primal as possible on a literal poverty level budget.

    I am researching and I'm hoping for some decent info from the apple collective here.

    I still have chronic pain and I am not burning off this excess stored fuel ( body fat) because i need to cut out ALL consumption of any grain based anything. I am obviously intolerant to any grain, even hidden corn starches or things like dextrose as sweeteners (corn based too)

    I am totally sugar free, and THOUGHT i was grain free until i realized my limited sweeteners was corn based! now cutting out all sweeteners except stevia for a few things I cannot not have in my day (morning coffee and electrolyte drinks I make myself, which is some sodium and potassium with lemon juice water and stevia to sweeten the salty taste)

    My food base is getting pretty limited and selective due to finances, which makes things difficult...I want to stay in ketosis, and only eat about 50 grams of healthy non grain carbs ( veggies, selective fruits as treats) when not in ketosis burning off my own body fat, and once i am able to maintain rather than hoping to burn fat.

    So...how important is the protein macro info I am reading everywhere? Where is the science behind this...what happens if i DO NOT meat my protein macro?

    I'm a woman, 41, peri menopausal and 4 foot 11. I am not looking for a 6 pak abs or body building. I power walk 1 to 3 miles a day and do some arms resistance band exercises, and I do squats. swim in the summer and do all low impact, not too much heavy lifting exercises because of my spinal stenosis. I want to me lean and healthy...sexy and ripped are not necessary.

    I am having a VERY HARD time getting in my protein macros. at 0.7 grams per pound of body weight ( currently 186lbs) I need to eat 131.6 grams of protein!!! I'm literally NOT hungry and gagging down my protein past about 85 grams of protein in a day, get constipated too. I have a SLOW digestive system, i can eat one meal of mostly protein and not be hungry or even think about food for 6 to 8 hours. I could literally eat once a day and be OK with that. I try to eat my protein macros for sure, eating under 20 grams of net carbs a day and minimal healthy ( coconut, butter and olive oil) in fats cause I have my own fat on ME I want to burn off right now.

    So, if i eat 80 grams of macros of protein a day, am I limiting a fuel source for my body that is needed? with being in ketosis as my goal for now, and wanting glucogenisis to provide my brain with the glucose it needs to function...does NOT eating the formula for protein macros create an issue? Will my body start feeding off my own muscle? I'm a see it to understand it kinda person. how have we come to this formula? i do not want to eat JUST protein all the time, how boring.

    secondly about protein...i CANNOT afford grass fed meats....I house and raise a family of 4 on less than 28k a year in Canada...I literally can hardly afford grocery store grain fed protein! yet, I fear this is holding my health hostage, and I wonder aside from grain and grass fed, is a protein a protein a protein? can I go with eggs and fish more than meats and be ok? What if I ate/drank half my protein a day in a 100 percent whey protein isolate shake? if I hit my macro for protein this way... is that sufficient?

    Any and all links, info, and experience re what I'm asking is much appreciated.

  • #2
    Protein needs are usually exaggerated. People want to sell protein shakes/supplements, high protein diets, or they think the rules for bodybuilders apply to us all. You don't need 131g of protein! 0.8g/lb is even more than what the Int'l Olympic committee recommends for professional athletes!

    http://www.olympic.org/documents/rep...report_833.pdf

    Protein intake targets for both strength and endurance athletes have been set at about 1.2-1.6 g/kg body mass per day. Dietary surveys show that most athletes easily meet these goals, even without the intake of expensive supplements.
    1.2-1.6g/kg =~ 0.55-0.72 g/lb. So my logic is that if that's good enough for a professional athlete, then 1g/kg (about 0.5 g/lb) would be adequate for us mere mortals with regular levels of exercise! Keep in mind this is based on "normal" weight, so if you're obese, you really shouldn't use your current weight of 186. For the sake of calculation, if we assume "normal" begins at the maximum normal BMI of 25, you'd be at 123 lbs or 56 kg. So rounding off, 60g would be adequate. The WHO says you need even less(0.83g/kg=0.37g/lb), so you're covered. So 60g is not hard to get. I get enough from just plant foods, so you should be fine if eggs and fish are in your budget. Just don't do protein shakes, a processed food is not necessary. Get it from real food.

    Another point is that the more body fat one has, and especially for women, the less muscle mass they will lose during weight loss. People who need to worry about losing muscle mass are those who are in very low body fat levels (shredded six-packs and such). So at your level, you shouldn't worry about it. Your body is not going to eat up your precious muscles when there's all that body fat available, especially if you're also getting some basic exercise. I tracked my body fat throughout my weight loss and even though I average 60g protein, I've become stronger and fitter so I clearly didn't lose muscle mass, even though I don't do any traditional weight lifting.
    Last edited by KimLean125byMar15; 04-28-2016, 10:50 PM.
    *Starting Wt - 151 lbs (January 2015) * Current Wt - 113 lbs (November 2016)
    *95% Plant-Based (from June 2015) ~ *75%Carbs *10-15%Protein *10-15%Fat
    *Exercise ~7-10 hrs/week

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for your reply! Your reasoning and math makes complete sense to me and was what I was thinking too since it seemed the protein macro formula was based on very active heavy lifting muscle building types who need repair time from muscle building workouts.

      I was worried simply because they all claim for your current weight not what your typical weight would be on your frame minus the stored fat/fuel you've got... I think a lot of lchf forums I've been reading to make sense of this have got it alllll wrong. It's literally gagworthy to try and take in all that protein!!!

      60g of protein is absolutely doable in my budget and I would totally prefer natural foods over processed stuff.

      Thanks again!!


      Sent from my phone using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Alifeungrained View Post
        Thanks for your reply! Your reasoning and math makes complete sense to me and was what I was thinking too since it seemed the protein macro formula was based on very active heavy lifting muscle building types who need repair time from muscle building workouts.

        I was worried simply because they all claim for your current weight not what your typical weight would be on your frame minus the stored fat/fuel you've got... I think a lot of lchf forums I've been reading to make sense of this have got it alllll wrong. It's literally gagworthy to try and take in all that protein!!!

        60g of protein is absolutely doable in my budget and I would totally prefer natural foods over processed stuff.

        Thanks again!!


        Sent from my phone using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
        I don't disagree with Kim's assessment of overall protein need. Most primal exercise levels don't require those huge numbers you read. I surely wouldn't recommend less than 60g per day and I wouldn't limit it even to that level from any kind of health concerns. We can handle much more protein than 60g, but that is probably sufficient for most of us if all other systems are working well.

        More importantly, I believe, is the amino acid mix and our protein sources dictate that. There are many so called "complete" proteins that lack sufficient essential amino acids; and some conditionally-essential amino acids don't get made by the body due to inadequate intake of essential amino acids. Glycine is one, proline is one and cysteine is another. These amino acids play huge roles in our hormone and enzyme levels, yet are in low supply in many of our common "complete" proteins.

        Do your homework, but as an action item shortcut, include 11g-12g per day of gelatin to keep glycine and proline sufficient and don't avoid pork (unless religious views prohibit) Pork is a good source of cysteine precursor.
        Last edited by John Caton; 04-29-2016, 03:31 AM.
        Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
        Old Paths ... New Journeys

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Alifeungrained View Post

          My food base is getting pretty limited and selective due to finances, which makes things difficult...I want to stay in ketosis, and only eat about 50 grams of healthy non grain carbs ( veggies, selective fruits as treats) when not in ketosis burning off my own body fat, and once i am able to maintain rather than hoping to burn fat.

          So...how important is the protein macro info I am reading everywhere? Where is the science behind this...what happens if i DO NOT meat my protein macro?

          I'm a woman, 41, peri menopausal and 4 foot 11. I am not looking for a 6 pak abs or body building. I power walk 1 to 3 miles a day and do some arms resistance band exercises, and I do squats. swim in the summer and do all low impact, not too much heavy lifting exercises because of my spinal stenosis. I want to me lean and healthy...sexy and ripped are not necessary.

          I am having a VERY HARD time getting in my protein macros. at 0.7 grams per pound of body weight ( currently 186lbs) I need to eat 131.6 grams of protein!!! I'm literally NOT hungry and gagging down my protein past about 85 grams of protein in a day, get constipated too. I have a SLOW digestive system, i can eat one meal of mostly protein and not be hungry or even think about food for 6 to 8 hours. I could literally eat once a day and be OK with that. I try to eat my protein macros for sure, eating under 20 grams of net carbs a day and minimal healthy ( coconut, butter and olive oil) in fats cause I have my own fat on ME I want to burn off right now.
          Using lean mass (as stated in the PB) is a more acurate means of assessing protein needs for those needing to lose weight. Athletes can use other methods.

          Its approximately .7-1g of protein per pound of LEAN MASS. Yes people screw this up and calculate based on TOTAL MASS at times. So at 187lbs and for instance 25%bodyfat....protein requirements are actually for approximately 140-145lbs of lean mass. This would give you a goal of 98g of protein per day. However, our assessment of 25% bodyfat is probably low.....given that this is in ideal range and you say you need to lose weight. So your true required protein is likely close to 80g/day.

          I would not try to extrapolate much from athletic recommendations as those are in conjunction with carb recommendations WAY above what you are consuming, and/or require. 3-4g/lb in instances of strength and endurance athletes. You certainly don't want to consume that.

          I disagree that you should not worry about losing lean mass. Any loss of lean mass IS significant. This is shown over and over in study.....so DO keep your protein up decent level and do whatever resistance traing is available to you given your condition.
          Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-29-2016, 05:12 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            without expensive equipment it's very difficult to assess what's being lost -- fat or muscle -- and as we age we naturally lose muscle mass so keep up the resistance training!

            are you also eating fish, eggs and offal? wild tinned fish like sardines are dirt cheap, as eggs and oogly bits. you don't need to (and shouldn't) be eating beef all the time.

            your "slow digestion" jumped out at me though, so what are you ding for gut health? any fermented veggies or foods with resistant starch? if you've been under 20 nc a long time it may be time to up that and shift your macros a bit. even atkins isn't that lc for more than a few weeks.

            fwiw: kim is our resident vegan troll and does NOT eat primal, so please take her advice with a grain of salt.
            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

            – Ernest Hemingway

            Comment


            • #7
              Good to know.

              I eat yogurt and drink dill pickle juice at the moment. Use apple cider vinegar and olive oil on my salads. I'm looking into pre and probiotics to help heal my gut and shift my gut / bowel flora.

              Really trying to like fermented drinks like kombucha but ugg just gross to me.

              I agree my gut is still in repair mode from a life time of eating grains and not knowing I was allergic to them. Eliminating any and all grain sources...even hidden corn starches etc is rather recent for me. When you know better you do better So I suspect as I get really strict and careful...it will improve over time.


              All my life I was told. " Oh you have asthma and juvenile arthritis. Here take this pill. Nothing we can do for you. It's genetic. " (Eyeroll)

              When I went low carb the first time for insulin resistance 3 years ago and then after 3 weeks no grains had a sub for lunch and I was knocked off my feet literally. In so much pain in all my joints I couldn't move out of bed for 2 days.

              Thats when I found Mark Sisson and this site. A true life saving moment. I have since essentially cured the insilin resistance and athritis and am off all medications.

              I eat pork and limited beef (just due to price) I eat chicken and turkey. But it is all grocery store bought mass manufactured meat...definitely not grass fed anything. My eggs are from my own backyard chickens who have omega flax feed for supplimental purposes but eat lots of bugs and garden scraps. I eat a LOT of eggs. I like tuna and canned wild salmon. Can't tolerate sardine...wish i could.

              My concern with my obvious grain intolerance is am I just prolonging the poor gut health by eating grain fed grocery store protiens in my meats. Should I limit myself to fresh caught fish (my husband fishes) and my eggs and some canned stuff. To eliminate grain fed protien sources as much as possible.

              Hence my question is a protien a protien a protien. Am i missing anything important NOT eating beef or limited chicken and pork?

              Ty for your input

              Comment


              • #8
                Also. I have a scale that measures fat, muscle and water percent and calculates bmi. I use that as a way to see the fat percent go down and watch my muscle percent...it could be a decent way to keep a general eye on things. Thought I'm not sure how accurate such scales truly are (purchased with air mile points reward. It's an expensive scale ) im currently 27% muscle and 55 percent fat. Lol. At 4 foot 11. Yes...I'm round.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alifeungrained View Post

                  Hence my question is a protien a protien a protien. Am i missing anything important NOT eating beef or limited chicken and pork?

                  Ty for your input
                  No, a protein is not a protein, a protein, a protein. Completeness of the amino acid profile is critical. Diverse sources of meat from fish, pork, beef, chicken and GELATIN (broth or supplemental) are all needed to insure adequate intake of essential amino acids. Furthermore, gelatin will heal your gut faster than anything you mentioned, not that pro and prebiotics are not helpful.

                  I understand the budgetary contraints of meat, but often the cheapest cuts are the most nutritious. And one doesn't require a lot of meat to gain the benefit.

                  Your grain intolerance is not affected by eating grain fed beef but your omega fat balance is. You can diminish the impact of that by avoiding fatty meats that are grain fed. If that's what you need to buy, go as lean as they have. Congratulations on the backyard chickens and the Omega 3 eggs. That offsets your concern about the grain fed meat even more.

                  Eat whatever wild caught ocean fish you can. Canned is fine. Too bad about the sardines, but tuna and wild caught salmon are good even if canned. Fresh water fish will increase your omega 6 some but the protein is worth it if your omega 3 from other sources is decent. Rainbow trout has a decent omega 3 content.
                  Last edited by John Caton; 04-29-2016, 12:37 PM.
                  Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
                  Old Paths ... New Journeys

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That eases my concerns about eating the grain fed meats we do buy (always leaner cheaper cuts like eye of the round - on sale in bulk and freeze to offset the financial strain.)

                    Obviously gelatin is cheaper than suppliments. So that is good to know!

                    I'm assuming bone broths then are still good for me to make as it seems the fat on grain fed meats is my only concern for limiting intake? I always boil down andnmake turkey and chicken soup stock from the carcasses.

                    It is good to know I can do this and continue to heal my gut even on a very restrained budget. I've been stressing about feeling stuck.

                    Yeah it takes extra work...but gardening and cooking from scratch skills come in handy doing this for sure

                    Glad infinally decided to join the forums rather then just read them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Alifeungrained View Post
                      Glad i finally decided to join the forums rather then just read them.
                      We're glad you joined too. I read your diabetes posts on the other thread. Thanks. That's how this community works by sharing info.

                      Regarding your bone broth question, when you make it from grain fed bone sources, you can skim off the fat if needed. I dont. I just eat more sardines.
                      Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
                      Old Paths ... New Journeys

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        if you have access to wild fish and eggs then red meat and pork can be a rare treat. buy cheaper cuts that need braising. hands-off cooking, just takes a bit of planning and time.

                        gelatin will help a LOT in healing your gut.
                        As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                        – Ernest Hemingway

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by John Caton View Post
                          We're glad you joined too. I read your diabetes posts on the other thread. Thanks. That's how this community works by sharing info.

                          Regarding your bone broth question, when you make it from grain fed bone sources, you can skim off the fat if needed. I dont. I just eat more sardines.


                          Isn't a collective knowledge of things so great !?

                          It's the darn sardine bones... just wigs me out no matter how soft they are! I ate em as a kid but now..ugg.



                          Noodletoy:

                          Getting on this gelatin thing asap,
                          Last edited by Alifeungrained; 04-29-2016, 04:22 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Best to get protein from varied sources. Need to figure out how much your body requires (and amount changes based on season and activity). Get "Metabolic Typing Diet" by William Wolcott out of the library and take the test. It will give you a good approximation of what percentages of protein, fat and carbs you should have on your plate, as well as what the best forms of protein are for you. Also, watch out for stevia! Sarah Ballantyne (The Paleo Approach) writes that the glycosides in it have a hormone structure and they mess with your natural hormones and that it is also carcinogenic, and can cause genetic mutations. If you have any hormone imbalance or immune system dysfunction you really should stay away from it. Stevia was my only sweetener and I thought it was safe. Had to drop it out of my diet. Bummer, but my health and longevity are primary.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              http://drkateklemer.com/wp-content/u...-Self-Test.pdf

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X