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  • #16
    Originally posted by ToldUzo View Post
    But can we directly compare rodents to humans though?
    Directly? No, it is just a proxy of course. But it's another piece of the puzzle. Especially when we have groups of humans eating well over these minimal amounts of protein and remaining healthy.

    Protein "requirements" by some world agency are minimum standards to avoid illness and death. Not recommendations for optimal health.

    Then you have your performance recommendations, but these are counterintuitive at first. You would think a lean Olympian near his/her genetic potential needs the most protein....but it's actually that beginner lifter just beginning the "starting strength" routine who requires more. Growth, development, or reduced capacity to use increases need (pregnancy, breast feeding, beginner to intermediate training, kids, and elderly). Stasis and maintenance reduces need.

    However, we are discussing toxic load.....and when it comes to whole food protein it's damn high. Problem here is that all I have seen regarding cancer is epidemiology. And those are based on 24 hour recall and does not account for food quality/source. That's why the rat studies. So at that juncture I usually revert to an evolutionary lens until we have better answers.

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    • #17
      By my calcs I'm at 130 lb lean (tall lady) so at 65g protein needs-regularly fall at this level and am doing well. Seems about right to me...

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      • #18
        Remember that excess amino acids will be used for fuel. So if you eat too much proteins, chances are that you will end up burning the excess. And this alternative fuel has priority over carbs and fat. So in the end, eating way too much protein ends up displacing other fuel for immediate energy use. It is not a problem but if you were hoping to improve something (like burning excess body fat), excess proteins will act just like excess carbs: you first have to dispose of all of it before coming back to fat burning.

        My approach is very loose: I eat protein containing whole foods most of the time (ranging from animal to plants), I don't care about the numbers. This tends to regulate itself nicely without me thinking about it. Since I work out regularly, I am certainly not afraid of not being able to utilize the protein I eat for lean tissue synthesis (or worse, sarcopenia) But supplementing is not only irrelevant in my case, but quite costly.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by primarily primal View Post
          I personally feel best on about double that protein. Is it too much? I don't know but I know that 1g per kg of lean mass is definitely TOO LITTLE. For me. I feel awful on that amount in the brain, muscles and nervous system. I am just one of those people that needs a lot of protein. Then again, I can subsist on very little carbs and feel just fine! Everyone's different and I don't think ANYONE, anywhere, can make blanket statements about what we all need.

          Seems to me that's how we GOT into this screwy mess of nutrition/health misinformation in the first place
          Do you have actual numbers? Understand protein amount is not the same as the food amount?

          You'd be quite an outlier if, indeed, you are that sensitive to protein amount. It's easy to think what we want, rather than what is the case. Think about placebos and go from there.

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          • #20
            Without going back and rereading Mark's views in the PB, I recall he suggests .5g-1g per pound of lean body mass. I lot of people don't read so well, and they jump to erroneous conclusions. LBM is not body weight, or weight when you are appropriately lean. A gram of protein is not a gram of food that contains protein.

            As the OP notes, this is a beaten to death topic, even w/o the "Yes, but what about..........." clever questions. Also, later in the thread, what is the quality of the protein?

            I think the .5-1 g/day is just fine for 99% of us 99% of the time. And it doesn't have to be hit on exactly or restricted on a daily, analyzed basis. Do some food recording or look up the databases and get a feel for what you are eating.

            BTW, casein is a very problematical protein. Having said that, I do eat a lot via yogurt and cheeses, but I'm now of an age where I don't worry over every bit that goes in my mouth. Dr. Campbell started his protein research using 100% casein, which, of course, is only found in baby food : milk. Not even babies eat 100% casein. The China Study has been thoroughly deconstructed by Denise Minger and others, the conclusion being it's the wheat eating areas having the greatest mortality. Ancel Keyes deceptions plus the internet.

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            • #21
              I believe that we will soon consider high protein requirements like the the low fat, low carb and low cholesterol fads. At least in my experience, high protein didn't provide any better results than moderate protein, such as .5g per pound of body weight. Carbs are a bigger factor for me as far as muscle gains.

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