Ad Widget

Collapse

Muscle catabolism and the math around it.

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Muscle catabolism and the math around it.

    I've thought about this and tried to put some numbers to things. Cos I like numbers and I over think things.

    The observations are all mine, and the sample size is 1 - me. Though I inadvertently fasted my neighbors cat a few days I didn't weigh her before and after. And we must fight animal testing so we'll not talk about that. Its the worlds sweetest cat though.

    The typical fat loss in a true water only fast is about your weight in lb + 10% in grams if you were a true couch potato but haven't wrecked your metabolism by chronic dieting.
    How did that math come about. OK Assuming 200 lb. You will be using 2000 calories if you did nothing. 2000 calories @ 9 calories a gm is 222 gm of fat.
    Now there is water loss, but true fat contains almost no water. You will have to count calories in accurately and in a fast that part is easy. 0.

    If you're losing any more than that much weight on a daily basis, you're losing things other than fat.

    Here is where it gets even more confusing. Your body will swap water for fat and you will not see the scale move for days if not weeks on end. That is almost classic fat lost symptoms when you're fasting.

    If you're losing muscle a 2000 calorie deficit would give you over 500 gm in protein, worse yet, muscle as we all know is 75% water. Its a honey comb of proteins and water is the honey. If you lose 4lb a day its nearly all muscle. Even worse, if you lose the muscle matrix to catabolism, you'd shed that weight almost immediately. Fat loss accumulates and after many many days/weeks it drops 1 day and you go right back to sitting in 1 spot for weeks. Muscle loss is very rewarding on a daily basis if you just look at that 1 number on the scale.

    Now that I have mathematically counted this out - you should go and look at the statistics of the professor who lost weight on a twinkie diet and look at it. Effectively he lost 27lb with a 56,000 calorie deficit. Most people conclude that he's lying about just being 56,000 calories down, that is 800 a day, he was 1500 or so under. AKA its un tenable.

    56,000 calories is 15.5 lb if he lost just fat.
    56,000 calories is 32lb as muscle and another 100lb as water. ~132lb

    Water is a bit tricky. Muscle holds water, so do intestines and bones and several other parts of your body. People with a lot of body fat have a lot less % of their body weight as water and lean muscular people have a lot higher % as water.

    Anyway, the way I counted it simplistically by trial and error is 5 lb fat = 45,000 calories, 7 lb muscle = 11,000 calories and 15lb water.

    Anyway the numbers and patterns I mentioned were observed in my own fast. The rest is just theory and conjecture. I pretty much steadily averaged 2/3lb all the way to 148lb after which my pattern got very very erratic cos I was interspersing fasting, feasting and working out in near random order as life permitted it.

    Thanks.
    Srinath.

  • #2
    Dude. Stop. Fixating. Go take a walk. Blow some soap bubbles. You need a hobby.

    Honestly, I'm not trying to be unkind. Many years ago when both my gf and my best friend and roommate told me I had become a "real asshole" with a job change, I had to listen. Your eating wide and wild swings in what you are doing, has led others to suggest the possibility of an eating disorder. You are trying to find exact correlations in the most impossible arena, the human body.

    I very well understand the fun and practicality of research. Could do it all day long, my curiosity going deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. The intertubes enable that. But eventually, there is more to life.

    Comment


    • #3
      Plenty of hobbies, motorcycles electronics etc etc. I get any more hobbies I'd be - I dunno too busy to do anything other than post.
      Thanks.
      Srinath.

      Comment


      • #4
        One point I was trying to make as well in this post is that its not needed to be precise either when fasting.
        The synopsis is:
        You fast. Intake = 0.
        You lose nothing for 10 days. Normal.
        You lose 5-8lb on day 11-12. Normal, and fat is what you've lost.

        If you lose 3-4lb a day for 10 days straight - Muscle. 1-2 days you could lose muscle cos well, cos water loss is sometimes also muscle loss.
        Simple.

        Thanks.
        Srinath.



        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by priest
          Hold on, I thought you don't lose muscle when you fast. Now you do? Which is it?
          LOL you're not reading the first post, but you will on a twinkie fast. Or a juice fast, or any other fast where you eat carbs.

          Thanks.
          Srinath.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by priest
            I've been potato fasting since June. What calculations should I employ to determine how much muscle I've lost in that time?
            Put all the numbers up. I'll try. Mainly the total calories you have consumed, calories you have used up in addition to the BMR, the weight you have lost, starting and ending weight. As well as any other numbers, a start and any other insulin level would also be greatly helpful. 2016 June ???? That is an awfully looooooooooooooong time. 11 months ??? yikes, I would guess professor twinkie almost 60/40 muscle to fat in 8 weeks.

            I'd guess twinkie and potato aren't too similar, potato is mostly glucose. Glucose gets your insulin up fast and drops off fast. The advantage of that is likely if you are insulin sensitive to start with you may have no insulin to speak of when the spike is through so you will likely burn fat. Twinkie is fructose up to ~60%.

            Seriously the best way to see it is - if you lose several lbs a day on a daily basis. Its muscle. If you took in 0 calories, you should lose ~1/2-3/4 lb if you're 200 lb. And you will stall between weight loss bursts. If you lose 3-4 lb day over day steadily, you're losing muscle.

            Thanks.
            Srinath.

            Comment


            • #7
              Priest - I was 1/2 expecting you to say you were joking about the potato hack since June. Anyway potatoes cooked and cooled have a lot of glucose. Glucose has an ability to drastically keep down muscle catabolism due to the fast insulin rise and fall.

              Anyway The Twinkie dude - well I don't exactly know his workout details as well as what else he ate. He probably has them published. I didn't read it all.
              Maybe I should, but I cant workout for the time being. Life is in the way. So Its better I stay focused away from a twinkie (and anything else like it). So any news in favor of a carb binge is to be avoided. I am going LCHF a few days to get me properly into keto then fasting a week+.

              Anyway I am only talking about myself. I cant lose 90lb of muscle and still have the ability to lift a 100lb speaker that I lifted and carried around several times in my life the same way I used to, with just a little of the body counter balance part get harder. Like I'd hug it and lift it and put it on my shoulder lifting it with my leg in transit. That is about the same except for where I lean back and use myself as the counter weight. Less weight and less leverage. Otherwise its about the same.

              Thanks.
              Srinath.

              Comment

              Working...
              X