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  • #16
    Originally posted by Elliot View Post
    Bodyweight is not the only variable that affects insulin resistance. Nutritional variables, like magnesium, are strongly involved. The gut microbiota is also a major variable. Insulin resistance can sometimes be cured simply by replacing the gut flora with more favorable species, or by sterilizing the gut entirely.

    People should maintain a healthy figure, but if a person of ideal weight is still insulin resistant, shrinking further to become underweight is a dangerous solution.

    People who starve to lose weight often have excess baggy skin, which seems to contradict your quoted statement.

    Body weight isn't the variable I mentioned at all. Its the fat reserve you have, which keeps FFA's in circulation which keeps Insulin resistance up.
    Its not the only factor, yes. I'll give you that, good food (Veggies and ACV etc) and sometimes bad food (like chocolate, coffee/tea, alcohol in moderate amounts) also help bring down IR. But you're at that point trying to empty an ocean with a spoon when compared to the flood of FFA's.

    People who fast to lose weight have loose excess skin - however its not dead skin yet. Scars and other things like that are dead and those get digested before live but ugly sagging skin. People who starve can have 100 lb of fat and not make a dent in it and eat up muscle, and have no sagging skin. Starvation = when your insulin level is up and you're calorie deficient. The higher the insulin the more you're in starvation mode.

    A person of ideal weight who has got there only recently may have to stay at that weight and BF% for a long time to get Insulin resistance out of their system. By getting to where FFA's have dropped a good bit (by dropping to below ideal weight till nearly all the fat is used up) would get insulin sensitivity back very quickly. Sorry that's the theory I have and am trying to prove it. I am a text book case of your theory - which does not work.

    I got to low end of normal weight and I am easily able to get to the high end of normal weight and would keep going unless I stopped it via fasting again.

    I don't think I'll be in any danger except to eat instead of fast LOL.

    Thanks.
    Srinath.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by srinath_69 View Post
      I am a text book case of your theory - which does not work.
      Then please tell me, what is my theory that has apparently failed you?
      My opinions and some justification

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Elliot View Post
        Then please tell me, what is my theory that has apparently failed you?
        Sorry - didn't mean to blame you. I failed long before I met you.

        Normal weight and eating a normal diet = you stay there. That's the theory. Sorry, you don't have anything to do with my failure.

        Now that theory may work for someone who has been in a normal weight situation all their life. Or atleast for several years.

        In my case, I lost a 100 lb to get normal. However problems I have -
        1. I have the leptin sensitivity of a 238 lb guy and the leptin level of 148lb guy. So I can eat like a 238lb guy. No problems.
        2. The fat reserves of 10-15 lb is enough to keep my FFA levels near identical to where it was @ 238. So insulin resistance is still the same. So I tend to put on weight easily now.
        3. I could try to stay @ 148 for a long time and let the FFA drop - but would it ???? No idea. Its like saying if you have a full tank of gas, your fuel pressure is higher than if you had 1/8th tank. I need to get rid of the high FFA's. That may be better done via fasting and getting to where I have very very low FFA's maybe its @ 135 maybe more, maybe less and that will remove my IR. Again sliding scale, not 1 or 0. No easily grabbable fat is my goal.

        However I am eating for the next 2 weeks so I'm trying to eat clean and good raw-ish food so I can fast better without the toxicity level.
        Thanks.
        Srinath.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by srinath_69 View Post

          Sorry - didn't mean to blame you. I failed long before I met you.

          Normal weight and eating a normal diet = you stay there. That's the theory.
          I'm not sure what you mean by "normal" but I also don't know how this theory became "my" theory.
          Originally posted by srinath_69
          Now that theory may work for someone who has been in a normal weight situation all their life. Or atleast for several years.

          In my case, I lost a 100 lb to get normal. However problems I have -
          1. I have the leptin sensitivity of a 238 lb guy and the leptin level of 148lb guy. So I can eat like a 238lb guy. No problems.
          2. The fat reserves of 10-15 lb is enough to keep my FFA levels near identical to where it was @ 238. So insulin resistance is still the same. So I tend to put on weight easily now.
          3. I could try to stay @ 148 for a long time and let the FFA drop - but would it ???? No idea. Its like saying if you have a full tank of gas, your fuel pressure is higher than if you had 1/8th tank. I need to get rid of the high FFA's. That may be better done via fasting and getting to where I have very very low FFA's maybe its @ 135 maybe more, maybe less and that will remove my IR. Again sliding scale, not 1 or 0. No easily grabbable fat is my goal.

          However I am eating for the next 2 weeks so I'm trying to eat clean and good raw-ish food so I can fast better without the toxicity level.
          Thanks.
          Srinath.
          This does not surprise me at all. People who lose weight by fasting usually have trouble keeping it off. I don't think fasting is a good method of weight loss. I also don't think fat loss is the best method of restoring insulin sensitivity, though you seem to be implying that it is.
          My opinions and some justification

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Elliot View Post
            I'm not sure what you mean by "normal" but I also don't know how this theory became "my" theory.
            This does not surprise me at all. People who lose weight by fasting usually have trouble keeping it off. I don't think fasting is a good method of weight loss, unless someone is willing to do it frequently, every time they gain the weight back. I also don't think fat loss is the best method of restoring insulin sensitivity, though you seem to be implying that it is.
            That's cos no one fasts to the correct location. I didn't. And I thought I knew fasting quite well.
            You can not fast from being fat to being slightly less fat, or even not fat or even low end of normal.
            Many reasons for that:
            1. Fasting isn't a life style change.
            2. It doesn't teach you what is good for you vs not good for you.
            3. Usually the FFA's in your system don't care how much fat you have on board till it starts to approach 0.
            4. The weight loss is so fast that you literally lose the tug of war cos your opponent appears to have let go and keeled over. So you're never prepared for the monster sized tug back.
            5. I've had a strangle hold on the beast and still didn't kill it.

            This should be what they teach in fasting school.

            Fast till your Insulin drops under 1.
            Fast till there is a huge drop in FFA's. How to measure this ???? no clue.
            Fast till the Insulin resistance drops (measured via fasting and post prandial Insulin. Which itself is a barely acceptable test for IR IMHO)
            Fast till leptin and ghrelin get resized to your current body. How to check this ???? No clue.
            Then try eating and watch your weight. Any more than a 10% gain = alarm.
            20% gain - back to step 1.

            Fasting does not teach you anything. It only is a measure of your will power. You don't come out any better off to handle life on the other side. if you stress eat donuts @ 250 lb, you fast and become 125 lb, guess what when you're stressed you will eat the same number of donuts. EOM.
            maybe I should add a step - Donuts make you fat.

            Thanks.
            Srinath.

            Comment

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