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  • #76
    Originally posted by AMonkey View Post
    Despite Europe having its share of problems, our style of government has allowed for some of the lowest rates of obesity, poverty, reoffending and crime, and the highest rates of literacy, intelligence, height and happiness in the developed world. I don't like big government, but it worked. Meanwhile 'murica is a country defined by the stark contrast between super rich and super poor and a healthcare system that costs billions, yet is totally inferior to systems like Frances. You have the highest prison population in terms of absolute and relative terms. So what exactly are you bashing again?
    Your argument is akin to one prison is more accommodating than another and completely ignores the point that planned societies have a historical track record of failure, but more importantly they take all dignity and confidence away from people. When people do not have to think for themselves or take responsibility for their lives, they become weak, feeble, and unmotivated. Confidence comes from people achieving success on their own. It comes from having the choice to help others and not being forced to do so at gunpoint. So other countries are more successful, but compared to WHAT? Compared to each other? Every country has its own form of enslavement, just because some allow a fraction more freedom or a bit more "security" than another is not commendable. It's still condoning theft, violence, and enslavement.

    Humans are not animals that need or want caretakers. If chickens knew why a farmer was feeding them, they wouldn't eat their food.
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    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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    • #77
      Just wait til the government takes over health care. They know they can't afford to take care of everyone if we are sick all the time, so it will be making more of these rules to keep us "healthy"!! Bigger Government=less freedom!
      I like taking pictures of my food!

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      • #78
        Originally posted by JWBooth View Post
        The power to regulate is the power to prohibit. Today the limit might be 12 oz, but nothing prevents them from lowering that down to 12 fluid millimeters. And what does stop and frisk, drones, or the Patriot Act have to do with the discussion at hand?
        To recap: future, hypothetical abuses that may result from a soda pop size limit are germane but real life abuses are "off-topic". Unbelievable.
        Last edited by Rojo; 09-19-2012, 12:12 AM.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by j3nn View Post
          qft.
          You quoted for truth an incredibly ridiculous argument. (See above). Nice job.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by j3nn View Post
            Your argument is akin to one prison is more accommodating than another and completely ignores the point that planned societies have a historical track record of failure, but more importantly they take all dignity and confidence away from people.
            We can plan societies through government or we can leave it to the rich.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Rojo View Post
              We can plan societies through government or we can leave it to the rich.
              Last time I checked rich people haven't indefinitely detained anybody..... So are you really worried about the NDAA et al., or is all that cool as long as the mob gets together to stick it to the (rich) man every once in a while....? Speaking of, how is having Bloomberg (who can hardly be called "not rich") planning your little society working out for you? Do you feel like you're a part of that royal "we" doing the planning? Difference between "Bloomberg the Mayor" and "Bloomberg the Robber Barron" running things? Not much, I would think.
              Last edited by BONZ; 09-19-2012, 12:36 AM.
              Went Primal: 20 DEC 2011
              Starting: 6'1" 220 lbs
              Starting Energy: "bleh...."
              Current: 183 lbs @ 8.33% BF (Jackson/Pollock 4 caliper method)
              Current Energy: "WOOHOO!" See my journal HERE.

              "Paleo? Try it, but be wary of the cult mentality that comes with it. Paleovangelists are everywhere and a bit scary."

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                To recap: future, hypothetical abuses that may result from a soda pop size limit are germane but real life abuses are "off-topic". Unbelievable.
                No one said NDAA isn't extremely terrible, it's frightening and everyone should be infuriated by it. If you'd like to discuss it, I'd love to. Start the convo... GO!

                Not that you actually care, because I believe you're just trolling, even if you are an anarcho-OWS-commie who thinks all rich people deserve to be burned at the stake and the government is a threat to individual freedom only in extreme cases that you happen to take issue with, I have been talking about it [NDAA] since I first heard about it. Maybe not on a nutrition forum, but places where it's not under the sub-forum of FOOD and nutrition. Regardless, this is a privately owned forum and the owner obviously frowns upon discussions that they consider off-topic. That's not my choice. Take it up with the forum owner.
                Last edited by j3nn; 09-19-2012, 03:22 AM.
                | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                  We can plan societies through government or we can leave it to the rich.
                  That's just your prejudicial ignorance talking. Let me give you some perspective:



                  Then of course you have lobbyists that spend (collectively) $2+ billion per year influencing congress (which works out to $3.7+ MILLION per congressperson), campaign contributions, government contractors, bailouts (corporate welfare), subsidies to agri-business and all of the other businesses that are in bed with the government, the Federal Reserve (a privately owned corporation) that controls our money supply and injects the silent tax of inflation upon all of society, and a biased mainstream media that is controlled by 3 major players and I would say you are fooling yourself if you don't realize wealthy corporations that are using the government and its filthy rich politicians as a proxy to "legally" do their dirty deeds are already in control.

                  Not everyone that is wealthy deserves to be lambasted simply for being wealthy. Only crooked companies and fascist politicians that allow these injustices against humanity deserve to be implicated for their individual offenses.

                  Explain how government is protecting us from the same evil corporations that it is de facto aiding and abetting. I don't know how anyone could ignore the government's role in all that is wrong in our society and single out the wealthy, as if the wealthy in the private sector are the ones kidnapping (arresting) and throwing people into cages (prisons). No. The government does that on behalf of its cronies and itself when it arbitrarily enforces victimless crime laws and suppresses freedom of speech.
                  Last edited by j3nn; 09-19-2012, 03:30 AM.
                  | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                  “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                  • #84
                    Agreed that it's worriesome. Especially when we're seeing occasional reports of farm-to-table celebrations shut down for "health violations." Given what the government seems to think is "healthy," I'd rather not see them legislating it.

                    ...whoa, just read through the whole thread, and my on-topic reply now seems very off-topic! =/

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                    • #85
                      Ridiculous.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                        Then of course you have lobbyists that spend (collectively) $2+ billion per year influencing congress (which works out to $3.7+ MILLION per congressperson), campaign contributions, government contractors, bailouts (corporate welfare), subsidies to agri-business and all of the other businesses that are in bed with the government, the Federal Reserve (a privately owned corporation) that controls our money supply and injects the silent tax of inflation upon all of society, and a biased mainstream media that is controlled by 3 major players and I would say you are fooling yourself if you don't realize wealthy corporations that are using the government and its filthy rich politicians as a proxy to "legally" do their dirty deeds are already in control.
                        Isn't this what OWS is saying? If you want to change the above then you ought to push for publicly-financed elections.

                        Did you see the Bradly Manning posters? Do you follow Julian Assange saga? I'm on a lot of bulletin boards and these things get a collective yawn from so-call libertarians. It's the left that has taken up these causes.

                        The government/private thing is a cunard. It's the argument that the ruling class would like us to have. The real divide is rule by people vs. rule by elites, whether these elite have a government office or chair on a corporate board doesn't ultimately mean much.

                        Some would take that to mean that "rule by people" is people making choices in the market. I see that point but "the market" is only one sphere of human existence. And, I'd argue, it's not so "free". We should all realize that every time we enter a supermarket.

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