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cyclical ketogenic and carb loading

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  • #16
    Originally posted by gopintos View Post
    I am thinking that is why the LC/HF didnt work so hot for me. Because I was full on way fewer calories. For many months. As soon as I switched up the macros, and was hungrier too I guess, I started losing again. And some days, I was on the upper end of my "range" for weight loss, but still lost weight whereas I was stalling while chronically on the low end. Now I am trying to do more zig-zagging. Some high days, some low days. I know some ppl carb cycle. I havent really fine tuned it that much, though naturally some days are more than others.
    You are one switched on lady.

    Zig-zagging is the way to go for avoiding suppression of basal metabolic rate.

    Avoid doing just about anything chronically over the timescale of more than a few days and you will reap the benefits.

    I don't carb cycle very much - I eat low carb in line with PB (around 120-150 g net carbs a day on 2500 cals daily energy intake, active lifestyle). I cycle calories out/calories in much more so than carbs.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.


    • #17
      This is going to be difficult to adapt to, how do people who are primal, or fit for that matter keep their body fat levels constant once they have initially gotten their body fat levels down? I'm in ketosis right now, and the intention is to be primal after that, but don't really know how I will maintain whatever my ideal body fat level is. There are the normal bodybuilders(even competition eaters-furious pete) and athletes who do consume grains and don't follow primal diets who maintain very good bodies, at least good looking. I know they must work a lot to keep those levels low but I would really like to put in minimum effort when it comes to working out since there will be many times where I'm not able to. My main concern here comes from the fact that I am a teen, but with a lower metabolism, not obese or fat, just kind of normal and even with exercise previously, my fat seems EXTREMELY stubborn even with large amounts of cardio during track season, which is why I am resorting to ketosis.


      • #18
        Also, on another note, not sure if I should start a new thread for this but, I've read that on high fat, low carb diets, levels of IGF-1, despite the idea(not sure if its true or debatable) that HGH and testosterone should be higher when there is less insulin, go down which bothers me not only because I want to gain muscle mass, but also because my major goal is to try and increase my height while I still have better chances of growing. My growth spurt was early and since then I haven't really had another "spurt". Not sure there have been topics on this, but if anyone can help by pointing me to articles or another thread that would be great.


        • #19
          I keep my bodyfat levels down (now that they're pretty low), by engaging in solid bodyweight training a few times a week, tossing in some lifting every now and then, long walks, and some light cardio maybe once a week.

          I also continue to fast because it makes me feel good (it is detoxifying and all), and I'm sure that has a very beneficial effect on my ability to stay lean without losing TOO much muscle (since fasting is inherently sparing of muscle unless you overdo it).
          "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."


          • #20
            Anyone? To make the last question simpler, if you're on CKD which many claim to increase IGF-1, HGH and Testosterone, does that increase come only during the refeed or does it effect you the whole "normal" part of the week?


            • #21
              Hi. Two good sources on cycliv ketogenic diets are
              Lyle McDonald, The Ketogenic Diet.
              John Kiefer, The CarbNite solution.
              Both have a lot of references to scientific literature explaining how a cyclic ketogenic diet works. Kiefer, for example, suggests limiting the refeed to about 6-8 hours once a week. After 4-5 days of an ultralow (< 30 gm) carb diet, the enzymes needed to store glucose as fat are depleted and
              it is unlikely that glucose will be stored as fat. It will take 4-5 hours to restore them once glucose hits your blood. THe result: glucose will mostly go to replenish glycogen stores in liver and muscle. Ideally you'd want to work out how depleted your muscles and liver are and match the amount of carbohydrates in the refeed to that. If you want to up the ante, you can exercise heavily just before the refeed and deplete glycogen even more.

              But why a refeed at all? The refeed triggers a brief but intense spike of insulin lasting 6-8 hours. Insulin is a growth hormone that facilitates glycogen storage in both fat (bad) and muscle/liver (good). But if glucose to fat enzymes are lacking, then insulin won't trigger much fat storage. Paradoxically, since you want a brief, intense insulin spike you should eat high glycemic carbs, not low. Low glycemic carbs just increase the duration and reduce the peak of the insulin spike.

              The insulin spike also triggers release of other hormones and enzymes that will stay high for several days and facilitate muscle growth, increase in metabolism, fat release, etc (e.g. leptin). Low levels of these other hormones/enzymes lead to the dreaded plateau and even loss of muscle mass. Your body is in famine mode. So once a week you convince your body that it is fat and happy and should build muscle, burn fat with wild abandon, etc.

              Or so the theory goes.
              I'm seven weeks into the diet and still trying to get the refeed quantity right. McDonald talks about this in detail.

              Beware: if you have any tendency to insulin resistance/ Type II diabetes the refeed may trigger high blood glucose levels. Not good.
              Last edited by ltmaloney; 08-13-2013, 07:12 PM.