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Shangri-La Diet - setpoint success at last

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  • Leida, I too am constipated ! I thought it was just me but I guess it's not. I've been taking magnesium as well, which usually works like a charm for me, but since I started the oil shots I've been having issues.


    • Ha-ha, I just about typed: Wow, that's awesome! Now, I know it's not awesome, but I am glad I am not the only one, when everyone sels seem to have an opposing issue!

      Shangri-la is great. I was hungry at waking, had oil shot at 6 am, breakfast at 7 am (barely managed to wait), then an oil shot at 10 am, and it's slightly after 11 and I am Okay to have lunch after I go running at 11:30, I think. And doing 150 push-ups, gods help me. Now, if I don't eat the house tonight that would be an achievement. I hate hungry days.
      My Journal:
      When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.


      • Ok, I am starting to feel really frustrated now! Been eating primal since beginning of Jan, took about two weeks to get to 80-20 and now I am about 90-10 but no wheat or grains at all; no scale movement (I do feel better physically though). I started the EVOO a week ago taking 2-3 table spoons and strictly adhering to the 2 hour window.

        I have not lost an ounce! I can't seem to break my set point, of which I have been sat at for nearly 18mths!

        Do I just keep on keeping on? Am I just being too impatient?

        Any advise would be gratefully received!


        • cwtch, are you monitoring calories? You could be seriously overeating (calories or carbs or both) - which stalls progress even if you're overeating on the good stuff. I know Julie counts calories and keeps carbs low and so do I (I'm female, 5'7", currently 157 lbs (down from 161 when I started SLD) and ~25% bf, desk job, and I am netting 1600 calories daily with <70g of carbs a day).

          Are you exercising?


          • Hi everyone! I'm just checking in with my SLD friends. I've been away from this thread and the forums in general because I've been studying for the CA bar exam, which I'm taking next week (Tuesday-Thursday--wish me luck).

            So I'm here to make an observation, which I've said I suspected before, but now I have actual proof. I've determined that eating very low carb and restricting calories (within reason) makes absolutely no difference on my weight. Basically, for months I've been eating very low carb, except for the times when I do the potato hack (which I've done three times--3-4 days each time), during the week. I basically keep my carbs below 30 g per day and also try to keep my calorie intake below 1400 calories although it can go up to 1600 on some days. Then I usually eat higher calories on weekends (with occasionally REALLY high calorie days topping at 3500 calories, but otherwise my weekend calories are usually around 2500). What happens to my weight is that I'll start the week at 137 pounds because my body would be flush with glycogen from the weekend. Then by the end of the week I'll be around 132-133 when my glycogen stores are mostly depleted. The cycle repeats week after week. I just keep losing and regaining around 5 lbs of water weight.

            Now, for the past week and a half, I've been studying for the bar and not really eating low carb or restricting my calories. I try not to gorge myself and try to only eat when I'm hungry, stop when full, etc. I did do 16-hour fasts a couple of days last week but haven't even been fasting this past week. (I normally do 14- to 17-hour fasts everyday on weekdays.) I've also been drinking every day, which I don't normally do. (I drink so much coffee during the day to study that I can't get to sleep at night without (a) a bunch of magnesium and (b) a couple drinks--this is not healthy, but I do what I have to to pass the exam and will return to healthier ways after the exam. Last time I took the bar exam--PA/NJ in July--I broke down completely the weekend before the exam and ate a box of Cheez-Its, a bag of Goldfish, and half a box--a giant box--of animal crackers so I reckon that this is an improvement.)

            Anyway, my point is--I've been consuming a fairly high carb diet over the past week and a half, not sure exactly how high because I haven't been counting or tracking anything. The carbs mostly come from potatoes, sweet potatoes, and dark chocolate, except that I had some rice with Thai food yesterday and Thursday. And guess what, my weight has been stable at 137. No glycogen depletion means not water weight loss but no weight gain either.

            Thus, I don't see why I even bother restricting constantly. Apparently, my weight won't move no matter what I'm eating or how much. Now, I'm sure that if I gorged myself every single day, I'd gain weight, and if I ate 500 calories a day every single day, I'd lose. But I'm talking about a reasonable range here.

            That said, I haven't completely given up on SLD and will try the ELOO once I get back from CA. Have fun everyone--I'll see y'all after I get back!!

            My journal


            • serenity, I'm confused. Are you doing SLD while eating in both styles (week of VLC/weekend refeed, and just unrestricted)? Or are you simply saying that you've proven that your body is at a setpoint? Because, yeah, you just described where I was at before trying SLD. The fact that you're not gaining and also not losing while eating whatever the heck you want doesn't surprise me. This is exactly how my body behaves at a setpoint. Eat crap for weeks, restrict calories and eat clean for weeks, exercise more, exercise less, doesn't matter a lick. My body likes its setpoint and will stick to it like glue. The only problem is that over the years, the setpoint started to climb ounce by ounce until it was uncomfortably above where I wanted to be BF%-wise. SLD plus calorie restriction is what allowed my body to break its setpoint habit.

              If you're saying that SLD isn't working for you with either mode of eating, I'm kind of not surprised either, because macros sort of don't matter when it comes to SLD and weight loss. The caloric restriction is what matters. Macro tweaking is just what you do within your caloric budget to affect certain results (like workout recovery, easier appetite restriction, etc.). I would suggest forgetting about macros and just picking a calorie point and sticking to it while doing SLD. See if SLD plus the same calorie deficit every single day, for a couple weeks, really has no effect. If you have refeeds on weekends, you're going to see water weight gain during the week that your body will then spend all its resources on expelling. This is totally unscientific and quite possibly baseless, but my feeling is that you're not giving SLD a chance to "do its thing". And it's an unpopular opinion, and very un-Primal, but I honestly believe that SLD would work regardless of what you're eating, as long as you stick to a caloric deficit. So, like, pick a number, and just stick to it for a couple weeks while doing the oil shots. Forget about macros.

              If I've totally misconstrued what you're saying, apologies. I found your post just slightly confusing, although there was a lot in there with which I identified.

              cwtch, can you give us a rundown on your food/exercise habits and calorie intake? I think something that's getting lost in the shuffle here is that it's not the oil shots that are making people lose weight. It's the calorie deficit that's making people lose weight. The oil shots simply a) supress your appetite to make caloric restriction is easier, and b) trick your brain into lowing the setpoint so the calorie deficit actually works the way it's supposed to. But oil shots + normal eating will do nothing (besides probably making your skin and hair a lot nicer--yay fat!).


              • Hey heatseeker, thanks for your feedback. I did SLD for a while but haven't been doing it recently. I tried it with refined CO and then with walnut oil, but neither worked for me. (I know that it could take weeks for the AS to kick in, but I'm impatient and only tried the CO for two weeks and the walnut oil for a week and a half. The walnut oil made me feel nauseated, sometimes really badly so I don't think that could work for me long-term anyway.)

                When I get back from CA in a week, I'm going to make a good-faith effort to use the ELOO for a couple of weeks. I think I'm going to stop the carb-cycling and pick a macro balance that keeps my weight stable from day to day so that I'm not losing and regaining water weight every week (that really gets annoying).

                I REALLY hope that SLD with ELOO will work for me because my setpoint is super stubborn, which is also why I believe in the SLD because I believe in the setpoint theory. How else could you explain someone's weight not changing regardless of how much or little they're restricting?

                Anyway, I'm going to be patient with the ELOO and try it for a couple of weeks. Hopefully, it will work. I'll keep you guys posted!

                My journal


                • Thanks for your response Heatseeker,
                  this is what I have eaten today (it is Saturday so it is a 'day off' where I allow some treats!)

                  Breakfast - my EVOO with water - adhering to the two hour rule.
                  Lunch - bacon rashers, fried egg, 1 pork sausage, 1 tinned tomatoe
                  Dinner - 25g dried cranberries 30g of macadamia nuts
                  snack or 74% coco plain choc - 4 squares
                  drinks - tea and coffee - 100ml skimmed milk and 3 tsp of granulated brown sugar.
                  total cals - 1450
                  fat - 123g
                  carbs - 73g
                  protein - 44g
                  I don't normally have the sausage, choc or the sugar in my tea/coffee.

                  I don't normally count anymore, I did when I first started to lose weight ... I don't mind doing it again, for a while if you think it would help.
                  Is the protein too low in relation to the others? Cals too high? I don't want to go too much below 1200 cals a day, I've done that before and didn't feel good, although that wasn't primal eating.
                  I am new to this, so still a little unsure about the ratios and the macro stuff!

                  On the exercise front, I don't have a regular routine anymore - I did go to my son's boxing gym and do the ladies work out, plus I used to go to my gym in work 2/3 weekly plus walking the dog. I also enjoyed swimming but not regularly. About a year ago I injured my back and that has really put a downer on my training routine. I have been back to the boxing gym, but found that it hurt my back and I haven't been recently... I do intend to keep trying and moderate the exercises accordingly. I go to my gym in work now and again, work permitting, and use the treadmill, rower and free weights there. I am a teacher, so I spend most of my working day on my feet - not real exercise I know, but I am not sedetary either.

                  I mostly walk now though... 2-4 times a week for about 50 mins with my dog, this will increase as the nights get lighter. I realise that I need to have a good routine for exercise. I have found, over the last 18mths that no matter how much I move or how I eat, I cannot break through 164lbs, this is why I was so interested in this post and the use of EVOO - I have looked it up and it does make a lot of sense.

                  Thanks for any help and guidance... I really want to get rid of around 20lbs. I'm 5 2 and 164lbs at the moment and still in the obese range according to the BMI chart (I know, I know!).

                  As a side note, I do find the EVOO helps to supress my appetite, I haven't not craved foods since taking it and I do find that I am leaving some food on my plate too. I intend to keep it going as I understand that it is doing me no harm at all, and it gives me some calories to start the day - I can't 'eat' first thing, so I am calling it my breakfast!


                  • Oh, not sure if that makes any difference but I thought I would mention it - I am going through the menopause - blood tests suggested it when I was 39 and my hormone levels have continued to decrease ever since. I am 41 now. I did start to use the HRT patches/tablets but didn't get on with either and gained weight using them. I don't take any form of HRT or medication now.

                    I can't use this as an excuse to stay at the weight - I really want to get lower, decrease my body fat and get healthier! I want to watch my kids get old! I know other women who are/have been in early menopause have lost weight, so like I say, it isn't an excuse and I can't allow it to stop me getting to goal.
                    After losing 74lbs (counting cals and exercise) I think my body is fighting my head!


                    • Interesting posts recently so thank you all for that. I was at that point too where I changed to more calories, Less calories and more working out then less working out. Nothing changed and my weight had slowly climbed up. At one point I could get in a size 6 but it was tight. Now an 8 is tight and a size 10 feels comfortable. I'll take into consideration that I really need to give this SLD several weeks to see if it works and I should probably start tracking food again to keep my calories down. I checked the other day and I was around 1700 calories. So I may try and get that down when the AS kicks in full effect.


                      • quick update: still bouncing around 155.6....havent had oil in a few days, but still have AS. will have oil again starting today before the AS wears off!! not giving up - cant seem to skip eating in the morning before exercise class, but I am usually going from 7 pm until 8 or 9 am with no food, so its still 13 hours or more. on saturdays I generally only have coffee with cream until 12 or 1 pm. I think I am going to try longer fasts, and i hope that will drop cals and kick in some real weight loss. I have also managed to walk alot more since the weather's been ok this week. walking seems to help keep the weight in check (from pastexperience I seem to lose more in spring and summer, and part of it is due to increased walking and other activity, i believe).
                        For those who are frustrated by lack of weight loss, I have been doing Shangri-la for almost 2 months, and not lost anything. Also, I lost weight before Primal by low-carb, and went primal and didnt lose anymore. Now in the past year my weight is up 10 lbs. Sigh. I suppose some peri-menopause is part of all this at my age, so I feel like I have to paddle against the current. If I stop to rest I get pushed back and have to start again, so I will keep working at it.


                        • I'm thrown off course. I can't do the MCT on the weekends because my body cleanses and I need a potty close. That said, te AS seems to carry into the weekends. My calories are never above 1500. Generally 1200-1300. This week I have eaten some potatoes and once a bagel at a work breakfast. Up two pounds. My balance is so fragile. I have to just say no to flour. This is my third time injesting flour since Jan 1st. It doesn't bring me good results! I am trying hard to get back to my 143 set point. I hate being 147 because it feels bad in my swollen joints. I'm glad I am a fast reactor to toxins. Maybe it will help me get clean.


                          • calee, it isnt easy to avoid grains, but as you noticed it is worth it! i have noticed my vitiligo reversing! its amazing because the dr.'s "dont know what causes it" and steroid creams are of limited help. (and they are STEROIDs, with side effects, yikes!) I found a mention of autoimmune diseases that are related to Gluten in "Wheat Belly", and it had never occured to me that gluten was my problem! so for the past year I have avoided gluten, and it has been so worth it! Also, my joints feel better without it, and without much dairy I am not in pain any more. Even without weight loss, the Primal way has helped my other issues.


                            • When my AS kicked in (for me it was immediate), my calories went down by 500/day. It was crazy. I think it's useful when the AS is in full force to really test out how little you can eat and not be hungry, to allow your stomach to shrink down some. Then, when you're in the groove, boost calories to a sustainable level.

                              cwtch, I know I just got done saying that it's my belief that you can eat pretty much anything within the caloric level you set for yourself and SLD will still work, but just looking at the food you listed, I would immediately cut out the nuts, dried cranberries, and brown sugar. That's A LOT of empty calories and appetite suppression is not going to work as well if you're not nourishing yourself. Take out the brown sugar completely, and replace the nut/cranberry meal with a meal of meat, green veggies, and a baked sweet potato (my dinner every night without fail is a portion of meat, a giant pile of steamed kale, collards, or broccoli with butter, and a sweet potato with butter). It'll come out to a better macro breakdown and be about 100x more nutritious, which will make your body go, "Oh, cool, we're good on fuel, let's let go of some of this extra fat."

                              My personal opinion is that anyone wanting to lose fat should be eating nuts and fruit very sparingly. The only fruit I eat is berries (they're relatively low in sugar) and I have at most 1tbsp of peanut butter a day (I know PB isn't primal but I just love it to death). I'm able to lose fat at these amounts, but if I ate more fruit and nuts it wouldn't budge.


                              • So I've come to the conclusion that I have to keep the dairy way under control. No amount of MCT oil is going to make up for the inflammation & bloat I'm getting from it.

                                That reminds me... I have to order more oil...