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  • #16
    Originally posted by Primal Toad View Post
    TRUTH! Thank you! Thank you! I have not been on this forum in a long ass time and, well, this is a great way to dive in again! You nailed it! May I quote you in a blog post?
    Haha, of course. I read/subscribe to your blog and Facebook. Always enjoy your posts and have been nodding in agreement with you a lot lately.
    | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Primal Toad View Post
      ALL plant foods have toxins. Every single one.
      I agree. This is why I have moved to an animal products centered diet. It's working well for me.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
        I guess this qualifies as trolling. I'm a hunter gatherer, and I'm browsing around my favorite grocery store: the wild. Give me a good reason not to collect wild grains and legumes. Give me a good reason not to locate a source of natural sugar. Give me a good reason not to dig up tubers. Give me a good reason not to eat birds and boar.

        Predicted response: "All those things are totally fine, except the grains and legumes. We shouldn't eat those because they have antinutrients."

        I wonder why all those things are fine, considering eating starch raises insulin, wild birds betray the magical o3-o6 ratio, and sugar is clearly toxic.

        See if you can spot the double standard anywhere.
        It's a study in probabilities, consider the probabilities of the outcomes on your inputs, then place your bets and see where it takes you.
        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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        • #19
          My first impression of paleo recommendations was all about identifying and minimizing the refined calories (oil, sugar, flour). After that, all whole foods are negotiable. Some of them like wheat are unlikely to catch on unless you really enjoy fermented porridge but I'm puzzled by the individual debates over each flora and fauna. Eat it or don't. There is no paleo pope to offend.
          37//6'3"/185

          My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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          • #20
            I would think:

            - best food being the most nutritious is not readily available (needs to be hunted, butchered, brought back to camp)
            - IF when no best foods around
            - fruits, tubers, veggies, etc, to avoid complete starvation when prolonged absence of best foods, with IF in-between
            - BIG FEAST when best food is brought back to camp, finally!!!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              Refined sugar, all the time, in excessive quantities is toxic. That is not the same thing as a bit of honey now and then. There is no double standard.
              Wonder why I'm not dead yet then

              In fact, because this comment pissed me off so much, I ate an entire 4lb bag of white sugar yesterday. Hey, look, I'm still here. Not only am I still here, but the bags under my eyes disappeared, my lips aren't chapped, and a cut on my hand completely vanished. Cool deal.
              Make America Great Again

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                Wonder why I'm not dead yet then

                In fact, because this comment pissed me off so much, I ate an entire 4lb bag of white sugar yesterday. Hey, look, I'm still here. Not only am I still here, but the bags under my eyes disappeared, my lips aren't chapped, and a cut on my hand completely vanished. Cool deal.
                I think the problem with sugar is the chronic high consumption of fructose (sugar is glucose + fructose) which in the long run makes your liver pretty fat, more than the glycemic effect due to glucose (but the latter depends on how much your endocrine system is out-of-whack).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by dkJames View Post
                  I think the problem with sugar is the chronic high consumption of fructose (sugar is glucose + fructose) which in the long run makes your liver pretty fat, more than the glycemic effect due to glucose (but the latter depends on how much your endocrine system is out-of-whack).
                  Only in the context of a diet high in PUFA. I've been consuming 300g+ of fructose for coming up on a year now, and my health has never been better.
                  Make America Great Again

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                    Only in the context of a diet high in PUFA. I've been consuming 300g+ of fructose for coming up on a year now, and my health has never been better.
                    That I also believe to be true: high PUFAs + high fructose is probably even worse than one or the other alone. This said, I always felt good on a high grain diet But over time (I mean decades, not over a single year), I noticed some telltales of decaying health. Removing grains altogether for just 7 months have removed those. Fructose is a little controversial but I note that I don't feel particularly missing anything without it. I actually don't think about it at all, it's just not in my daily life. If you think you're doing great with it, you are most welcome to eat it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                      Only in the context of a diet high in PUFA. I've been consuming 300g+ of fructose for coming up on a year now, and my health has never been better.
                      Can you please elaborate a bit on this? I've sort of switch to a peatish diet, not fully as I still eat muscle meat 2 times per day. I did however up my dairy, fruit, add sugar to my coffee, and routinely add maple syrup to fruit for dessert. I have always been avoiding corn/seed oils, instead really only using coconut oil/butter for cooking. I do however still eat chicken/pork probably 3 times a week. I always buy lean cuts (not pastured as I cannot find any in my area), but still.

                      What's considered a high PUFA diet? Thoughts? Would having chicken breast/pork loin 3 times a week be considered high, medium or low PUFA assuming I minimize all other consumption.

                      Edit: To clarify, I eat chicken 2-3 times per week, and pork only once
                      Last edited by Matt; 04-17-2013, 03:49 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Matt, better question would be why do you want to eat chicken breast and pork loin 3 times a week!?!? They are so bland to me. I prefer beef/lamb (more common meats I can think of). I'd rather eat canned salmon and sardines now than plain chicken breast, unless I fry the crap out of it in coconut oil.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by max219 View Post
                          Matt, better question would be why do you want to eat chicken breast and pork loin 3 times a week!?!? They are so bland to me. I prefer beef/lamb (more common meats I can think of). I'd rather eat canned salmon and sardines now than plain chicken breast, unless I fry the crap out of it in coconut oil.
                          Haha good point. Truthfully, I'd say mostly cost (2 kids in daycare costs more than our mortgage, haha). The fact that the other 3 people in my house like those meats also plays a role. Hard to make separate meals, even when my wife is quite accepting of the diet. I have been making a conscious effort to suggest lamb though, but it is sooooo expensive.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                            Wonder why I'm not dead yet then

                            In fact, because this comment pissed me off so much, I ate an entire 4lb bag of white sugar yesterday. Hey, look, I'm still here. Not only am I still here, but the bags under my eyes disappeared, my lips aren't chapped, and a cut on my hand completely vanished. Cool deal.
                            I love PaleoBird as I met her at PrimalCon 2 years ago. But I love this. Not being afraid of sugar. So you consume 300+ grams of fructose a day? From fruit? Lots of honey?
                            Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Primal Toad View Post
                              I love PaleoBird as I met her at PrimalCon 2 years ago. But I love this. Not being afraid of sugar. So you consume 300+ grams of fructose a day? From fruit? Lots of honey?
                              You and Derp are both lean young dudes. You can probably handle the sugar a lot better than I could.

                              But, Todd, before you start drinking Derp's heavily sweetened Peatarian Kool Aid, you should know that he also smokes cigarettes, does drugs, drinks like a fish, and consumes enough caffein and sugar sweetened OJ and milk to give a hummingbird adrenal fatigue. Not to mention rotten teeth. He doesn't eat anything resembling a Primal diet and yet pontificates here. He is also 6'3" and only weighs 150. He is not the picture of health that you want to emulate.

                              Also, judging by what he writes about how much life and the world and everything about it suck, he also is, IMO, clinically depressed. Having your blood sugar raging around on a roller coaster like that all day will do that to you. It might not be the sole cause of the depression but it sure doesn't help any.
                              Last edited by Paleobird; 04-18-2013, 09:29 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                                I guess this qualifies as trolling. I'm a hunter gatherer, and I'm browsing around my favorite grocery store: the wild. Give me a good reason not to collect wild grains and legumes. Give me a good reason not to locate a source of natural sugar. Give me a good reason not to dig up tubers. Give me a good reason not to eat birds and boar.

                                Predicted response: "All those things are totally fine, except the grains and legumes. We shouldn't eat those because they have antinutrients."

                                I wonder why all those things are fine, considering eating starch raises insulin, wild birds betray the magical o3-o6 ratio, and sugar is clearly toxic.

                                See if you can spot the double standard anywhere.
                                It's all about quantity. There is no double standards. As previously said, our ancestors would not have had a bowl of oats for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch and pasta for dinner...Also, not really sure how much grain there would have been available in the wild for them to bother with, especially when there would have been more nutritionally dense fruit/veg available (and meat).

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