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  • #46
    Originally posted by miata View Post
    When it comes to exercise Mark Sisson and Paul Jaminet couldn't be more different.
    I do know that Jaminet advocates morning cardio exercise almost daily in a fasted state. In an interview he said he does about 45-minutes running fasted almost every morning, and once a week a longer almost 1.5 or 2 hour fasted run. Mark probably wouldn't be a fan of that.

    I also almost never hear Jaminet mention sprinting at all, though Mark talks about it quite a bit as one of the best, yet most underutilized forms of exercise.

    So yeah, they are quite different. Jaminet likes lifting exercise, but doesn't place the same emphasis on it that Mark does. Although Mark is more "bodyweight exercises with optional added resistance" at least recently. But he advocates resistance stuff a bit more than PHD does.

    But there's nothing that says you can't do PHD for diet and PBF for exercise. Mix and match, whatever works for you!
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Uselis View Post
      Have couple more questions to make it more clear for myself and maybe others

      1) How important is seaweed? Where I live I can't find it. Could you substitue it with something (like iodised salt for example) or its not that important?

      2) Regarding bone broths. Never made it and again can't find anywhere beef bones and tendons. Bunch of pork bones though. Is it good or not worht it if you can't get beef bones/tendons?

      Thanks
      1) Can you find kelp granules anywhere? I know Whole Foods and most any health food store should have them. Sprinkle on your food a few times a week. Just be careful. Iodine turns radioactive very easily! This is not good if it gets in your thyroid. So I recommend avoiding Pacific seaweeds and going for Atlantic seaweed instead. There are lots of companies online that sell seaweed supplements and granules from Atlantic seaweeds which are generally richer in iodine anyway. Different species of kelp and all.

      2) Bone broth is awesome. But if you can't get to making it very often then you could try using a good gelatin powder. Lots of resources out there on that. Or make ox-tail soup once in a while.
      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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      • #48
        Originally posted by miata View Post
        The only weird things are that the book seemed over paranoid about omega3s and fructose -- and I wasn't quite convinced on the science behind that. I also wished they talked more about the interactions between macro mix and exercise levels. When it comes to exercise Mark Sisson and Paul Jaminet couldn't be more different.
        The book says something like 80% glucose to 20% fructose. I have no idea how to figure that out. Complicated by the fact that all fruits don't only contain fructose. I eat 2 fruits a day on a 2000 calorie diet because that is what works for me.

        I have worked to minimize Omega 6 as recommended by both phd and pb. I supplement omega 3 as recommended by Robb Wolf

        Hadn't looked ar phd exercise recommendations. Already have a set routine.
        Last edited by Pebbles67; 04-08-2014, 03:30 AM.
        1/11/18 We have moved! Join us at primalforums.com

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        • #49
          Jac I found it easiest to weigh starch. I eat 8 oz of potato and 8 oz of rice daily. That plus the fruit and sugary veg gets me to te 150g / 600 cal mark. I also tracked my food on MFP to get an idea of protein and fat levels.

          Yesterday I had cod, vegetables and rice for lunch and sweet potato and eggs for dinner plus 2 fruits and 1 oz of nuts. I also use gelatin to round out protein.
          1/11/18 We have moved! Join us at primalforums.com

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          • #50
            Uselis I can't have the excess vitamin k in seaweed, so I take 1 mg of iodine per day as lugols solution. I think getting extra iodine from seaweed or supplement is very important. It has helped me with female issues.

            I make bone broth with only bones though I am sure it would be amazing using other parts. I use great lakes gelatin, the green can that can be mixed into drinks without gelling. Again, gelatin has been an awesome addition to my plan. Great for joint issues and I have gotten compliments on my skin.
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            • #51
              Originally posted by calee View Post

              Question: with 60-90 minutes of exercise, I appear to gain weight if I eat over 1200 calories. Should I be trying to eat more? I'm medicated hypothyroid with an outrageously busted metabolism.
              I would ramp up your eating slowly. I would hate to have you experience too much weight gain and give up. Is that 60-90 min / day? It is possible that phd plus ps could heal you enough to allow you to eat more. Hopefully your thyroid will respond well to the added carbs.
              1/11/18 We have moved! Join us at primalforums.com

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Jac View Post
                Energy, what are the 5 rules of leptin??
                Here ya go, Jac:
                Rule 1: Never eat after dinner.
                Rule 2: Eat three meals a day.
                Rule 3: Do not eat large meals.
                Rule 4: Eat a breakfast containing protein.
                Rule 5: Reduce the amount of carbohydrates eaten.

                They are from clinical nutritionist Byron J. Richard's site. There is more info about each rule at the link. The one that could use clarification is #5; he's referring to reducing carbs from a SAD level, not from a LC level. Unfortunately he died recently. AFAIK, he is the original popularizer of eating to optimize leptin function based on clinical research. He was too supplement oriented IMO but I enjoyed reading his take on nutrition studies and read his book Mastering Leptin. As I mentioned before, without making any change except following the 5 rules, I lost 20 pounds in about 6 months, and saved myself from joining the 200 pound club. For that I'm certainly grateful to him.
                Late 50s, post-menopausal, low carb with some dairy, following the 5 Leptin Rules, taking ThyroGold, eating lots o' fiber and zero wheat with great results. My Primal Journal

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
                  Jac I found it easiest to weigh starch. I eat 8 oz of potato and 8 oz of rice daily. That plus the fruit and sugary veg gets me to te 150g / 600 cal mark. I also tracked my food on MFP to get an idea of protein and fat levels.

                  Yesterday I had cod, vegetables and rice for lunch and sweet potato and eggs for dinner plus 2 fruits and 1 oz of nuts. I also use gelatin to round out protein.
                  P, you say you're eating 2,000 calories but when you show what you're eating, it's hard to believe it adds up to that much. We're you eating at 2,000 prior to PHD? I'm making my way though the last 100 pages of your journal to learn about your process when you started on PHD. I was delighted the day you hit 208!

                  I get to pick up PHD from the library today. Looking forward to more reading.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Pebbles67 View Post
                    I would ramp up your eating slowly. I would hate to have you experience too much weight gain and give up. Is that 60-90 min / day? It is possible that phd plus ps could heal you enough to allow you to eat more. Hopefully your thyroid will respond well to the added carbs.
                    Im going to put 1400 into MFP and see what happens. Its a bit daunting after years at 1000-1200. Do you also eat your fitness calories? I never have. Also, what is the % macro's you have in MFP? I don't want to recreate the wheel here. You can tell me to bugger off.

                    Yes, daily exercise. I walk to work and back which is 30 minutes and do a Pilates Reformer class 4x a week. On days I don't do reformer class I walk the lake in front of my house which is 5k or take a long walk in the woods. I have a gym in my building and may add some heavier lifting. While I'm definitely seeing muscle growth after 11 months of consistent Pilates, I'd like to start seeing some definition. For my age, I'm limber as all get out which is why I love my routine.

                    I'm quite sensitive (joint swelling) to nightshades. I'm curious to see how I will respond to the starch if I try to use small amounts of Yukon golds. I may have to stick to sweet potatoes and rice.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by calee View Post
                      P, you say you're eating 2,000 calories but when you show what you're eating, it's hard to believe it adds up to that much. We're you eating at 2,000 prior to PHD? I'm making my way though the last 100 pages of your journal to learn about your process when you started on PHD. I was delighted the day you hit 208!

                      I get to pick up PHD from the library today. Looking forward to more reading.
                      I am not fully reporting fats etc here. You can friend me on MFP to see my full menus. See sig below.
                      Yes, I was eating around 2000 before, I upped carbs and lowered protein for PHD.
                      1/11/18 We have moved! Join us at primalforums.com

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                      • #56
                        Hi There,

                        Been reading this thread with interest. I started eating primal about 5 weeks ago - weight loss has been fine and steady (don't have a huge amount to lose) but I have found that in ramping up my fitness, which was non-existent before, to lifting, cycling, tennis ect (not made it to sprinting yet) I am so very tired and was wandering if including more carbs and following more of a PHD approach may be more suitable for me.

                        Keep the info coming as I am keen to learn.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by scrunchie View Post
                          but I have found that in ramping up my fitness, which was non-existent before, to lifting, cycling, tennis ect (not made it to sprinting yet) I am so very tired and was wandering if including more carbs and following more of a PHD approach may be more suitable for me.
                          Not trying to tell you what to do, but I did exactly that when I came to the realization that a low-carb approach was not adequate as far as supporting my energy needs for the type of workouts that I like to do.
                          By upping the good carbs, and dialing back the fats in my diet, my workouts have gotten better, and I've leaned out.
                          The best way to decide, (since you're curious about it) is to try it, and see how you feel. You can always shift gears if it doesn't feel right for you.
                          Just remember.....if you up your carbs, dial back the fats.
                          High carbs and high fats are not a good combo, and you will gain weight if you're not mindful of this.
                          Last edited by counterpuncher; 04-08-2014, 08:23 AM.

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                          • #58
                            Thank you for the advice Counterpuncher

                            Can I just ask how much you cut your fats back by? was it a lot or slightly and did you say avoid fats when eating a carb meal or still bunch them together?

                            I was thinking of starting to up carbs on my 3x lifting days and staying fairly low carb on the remaining and see how that went on.

                            I have read a lot about so many things I have come to realise that I need to use trial and error to find the way that best suits me but you can never get enough advise in how to 'attempt' changes.

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                            • #59
                              You're welcome, scrunch.
                              I pretty much cut fat back to the amount that naturally occurs in meats, I have a handful of almonds on most days, and I try to include some olives, (in moderate amounts, like as an addition to a nice salad) sardines and other fatty fish as well, (for the omega 3) along with some avocado.
                              My girl cooks with coconut oil, so that helps too.
                              As far as carbs and fats go, if you up your carbs, then cut your fats back by the same calorie number in order to stay within your calorie requirement.
                              Upping carbs on workout days, and staying fairly low-carb on rest days sounds like a solid approach to me.
                              And trial and error is necessary to find what works for you. There's a lot of good advice here, but everyone's different, and just because a particular approach works for a certain someone doesn't mean that it's right for you.
                              One thing....don't starve yourself, especially after a hard workout. If you workout hard, and you're hungry, EAT.
                              And don't be afraid of good carbs.
                              Last edited by counterpuncher; 04-08-2014, 09:42 AM.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Lilac View Post
                                Also interesting in that I just assumed grocery prices would be a lot cheaper in MN vs. Southern California, but they're not.
                                Heh, they are cheaper in the scary warehouse chains but it's impossible to go back after reading too many health books.

                                Originally posted by counterpuncher View Post
                                As far as carbs and fats go, if you up your carbs, then cut your fats back by the same calorie number in order to stay within your calorie requirement.
                                Ya, I found this easy. Some folks fall into either/or thinking like "carbs suck for satiety" which is true of a toast-and-juice breakfast, but PHD style is very filling. Filling an empty stomach with nuts and cheese alone is kind of a bummer.
                                37//6'3"/185

                                My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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