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  • Study Questions Gluten-Intolerance's Validity

    Is it adhering to a low-FODMAP diet that is the actual solution and not just gluten-free? Could this offer an answer into why so many who remove gluten still have so many IBS symptoms? After all, adhering to a low-FODMAP diet have been shown to help an overwhelming percentage of those who suffer from IBS symptoms; wheat just happens to be high in FODMAPS.

    Gluten Intolerance May Be Completely Fake: Study

    FODMAPS-related articles:

    Low FODMAP Diet | Shepherd Works

    IBS? Could be the FODMAPs - US News

    The Low FODMAP Diet Approach: Dietary Triggers for IBS Symptoms - aboutIBS.org

    http://stanfordhospital.org/digestiv...et-Handout.pdf
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    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

  • #2
    I await the neener neener neeners from my family. It's true, the symptoms of NCGS overlap remarkably well with the symptoms of IBS. Wheat actually doesn't aggravate my IBS, for whatever reason. It's been a useful food for me in the past (low fiber), and I even bought some einkorn pasta and flour and have been eating it for the past couple weeks. No GI symptoms, but I have had a god damn headache that will not quit, so I'm cutting it out again. I've pretty well resigned myself to the fact that some people just can't handle the junk, ancient or not.

    I don't think the wheat debate is settled by any means. It was logical to jump on gluten as the worst component of wheat considering what it does to celiacs, but perhaps we were wrong? I don't fully expect that to spawn a rich and interesting line of research, honestly. I more feel like researchers are looking into it for the hell of it because of the media craze. Either way, if that research holds in vivo, that is definitely a mechanism by which wheat could harm a person's health.

    But maybe it's not even about wheat, it could just be our lousy immune systems. I came across a study once (can't find it) that showed no association between inflammation and depression in Thailand, whereas there's an enormous association here in the West.

    ETA: I wasn't aware ATI's were actually a part of gluten. That's interesting. So I take it back, if there's further research to confirm the preclinical studies, we would have actual proof that gluten is bad. The most interesting part for me is the possibility that celiac disease is more environmental than genetic, even after 12,000 years as a food staple:

    Although several HLA-DQ2– and HLA-DQ8–restricted gluten peptides that trigger the adaptive immune response in celiac disease have been identified (Molberg et al., 1998; Anderson et al., 2000; Shan et al., 2002), only 2–5% of individuals expressing these HLAs develop the disease, indicating additional mechanisms of celiac disease pathogenesis, especially innate immune activation.
    Last edited by Timthetaco; 05-16-2014, 08:08 AM.

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    • #3
      This should be an interesting thread given that a lot of people like myself have done a gluten challenge and had negative effects when re-introducing. The one interesting thing that I have noticed is that after being 99% gluten free for more than a year I can have a beer or something made with flour without the same IBS symptoms that I had in the first 6 months or so. I wonder if my system has slowly built up a tolerance to gluten. I don't think I want to test what would happen if I started eating gluten on a continuous basis though.

      Anybody else feel like they have built up a gluten tolerance after being gluten free for an extended period?

      I also wonder if just focusing on the gluten proteins in the study is a good test. Aren't there a whole bunch of other proteins in dwarf wheat that were not there in older strains?

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      • #4
        Round-up intolerance.
        Crohn's, doing SCD

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        • #5
          So IBS is not caused by the gluten in the wheat; it's the saccharides in the wheat. Okay. So what about GERD, joint aches, skin problems, migraines, and all the other symptoms?
          5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

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          • #6
            Those would be due to inflammation from ATIs, I'm assuming. But that's the point. Nobody cares about why wheat might be bad; they only want it to be good.

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            • #7
              I agree. There is much more wrong with wheat than just the obvious gluten issues.

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              • #8
                I just took a look at the video clip with Pollan. He is bad mouthing paleo to sell his books. I guess you can attract a broader consumer base if you say that wheat is OK.

                He also makes some stupid comment about human developing enzymes for lactose, but we all know that all mammals are born with that.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                  Round-up intolerance.
                  I agree 100%. Our high priests of food science discovered that a great way to ripen all the wheat at once was to spray it with roundup to kill it all. Guess what other foods this works on? Beans, peanuts and potatoes.

                  I don't eat wheat, and I call myself gluten-free. But the idea that we as a society have gotten a mass allergy to a wheat protein thus necessitating a billion-dollar food replacement industry--that strikes me as odd.

                  I'm guessing its either the spray, or the fact that the wheat is probably harvested with a higher water content, making mold more likely--or making anti-fungal sprays more necessary. Maybe the symptoms are just a secondary effect of mold causing leaky gut? Who knows.

                  Like grok, I don't let Pubmed dictate my diet. I listened to abdominal pain, headaches, nausea and more--and narrowed the culprit down to wheat.
                  That study cited by the HuffPost reported that people didn't feel any better on a reduced gluten diet, a gluten plus whey-supplemented diet, or a diet supplemented only by whey.
                  Given the prevalence of lactose intolerance, I'd say that's a poorly designed study and a weird conclusion to make, that gluten sensitivity is fake.

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                  • #10
                    Gluten is not the only problem with wheat. Wheat germ agglutinin has an effect on the gut as well.

                    Even if gluten does not cause IBS, they haven't exonerated wheat until they do a controlled trial with whole wheat and measure all effects (rather than just IBS).
                    My opinions and some justification

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                    • #11
                      almost 5 years ago i went low-carb so consequently gave up wheat. it was a few months before i realized that i hadn't had a cold, cough or sniffle. having spent my ENTIRE LIFE in the throes of all sorts of bronchial issues, (coughing up blood, coughing hard enough to break blood vessels in my face, gagging up mucus most mornings, etc.) all year long, all the time, i was astonished. i still have not gotten sick and still do not eat wheat.

                      so yeah, my issue was imaginary.
                      As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                      – Ernest Hemingway

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                        almost 5 years ago i went low-carb so consequently gave up wheat. it was a few months before i realized that i hadn't had a cold, cough or sniffle. having spent my ENTIRE LIFE in the throes of all sorts of bronchial issues, (coughing up blood, coughing hard enough to break blood vessels in my face, gagging up mucus most mornings, etc.) all year long, all the time, i was astonished. i still have not gotten sick and still do not eat wheat.

                        so yeah, my issue was imaginary.
                        Yup. Classic nocebo effect.:-)

                        Funny, in addition to IBS symptoms I also had chronic bronchial problems go away. Also, like you no colds, flu, etc since going "wheat free."

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                        • #13
                          I've never had symptoms of IBS, but if I eat a slice of bread worth of gluten I'll be sick as a dog for a few days with a variety of other common NCGI symptoms.

                          There have been a lot of articles full of misinformation about celiac, gluten intolerance, and wheat appearing online lately. The conclusion of these articles is that if you haven't been diagnosed with celiac specifically, you absolutely don't have it and you need to eat wheat. Hardly anybody has this, and there's no reason why you should consider you might. If you haven't been eating wheat and you eat it and get sick, it's all in your head. And if you stop eating wheat and your symptoms clear up, you're imagining it.

                          I think they're running scared. If the 7 out of 8 celiacs who are undiagnosed and the much larger number who have a variety of symptoms from NCGI realized they feel better not eating wheat and just stopped, it would really impact big agribusiness and its need to continue to receive taxpayer subsidies for producing something whose demand is declining.

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                          • #14
                            noodletoy, NCGS specifically refers to IBS-like GI symptoms, which is what they were testing. People outright deny the symptoms you described as being connected to wheat at all. They attribute it to reduced calories or less junk food or other stupid shit, not a lack of wheat. I"ve seen people mock the reversal of serious symptoms as "magic".

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                              almost 5 years ago i went low-carb so consequently gave up wheat. it was a few months before i realized that i hadn't had a cold, cough or sniffle. having spent my ENTIRE LIFE in the throes of all sorts of bronchial issues, (coughing up blood, coughing hard enough to break blood vessels in my face, gagging up mucus most mornings, etc.) all year long, all the time, i was astonished. i still have not gotten sick and still do not eat wheat.

                              so yeah, my issue was imaginary.
                              Originally posted by miata View Post
                              Yup. Classic nocebo effect.:-)

                              Funny, in addition to IBS symptoms I also had chronic bronchial problems go away. Also, like you no colds, flu, etc since going "wheat free."
                              it NEVER occurred to me that something i ate depressed my immune system so severely and no doctor ever mentioned it as a possibility either.
                              As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                              – Ernest Hemingway

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