Ad Widget

Collapse

Digestible Carbs or full Carb numbers?

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Digestible Carbs or full Carb numbers?

    For some reason I'm missing if we count the total number of carbs in food or just the digestible carbs? Last time, I did full carb count. But, something made me think to check in preparation for this time, and I see lots of entries for 'digestible carbs' in blog posts, but can't find if that's what we're supposed to count or not. Terribly sorry if that's plainly laid out somewhere and I'm just overlooking it. That's been known to happen - like searching the house for the glasses that are perched on top of your head.

  • #2
    Originally posted by thompssn View Post
    For some reason I'm missing if we count the total number of carbs in food or just the digestible carbs? Last time, I did full carb count. But, something made me think to check in preparation for this time, and I see lots of entries for 'digestible carbs' in blog posts, but can't find if that's what we're supposed to count or not. Terribly sorry if that's plainly laid out somewhere and I'm just overlooking it. That's been known to happen - like searching the house for the glasses that are perched on top of your head.
    Do the digestible only, if you absolutely have to [count them], but first of all, don't stress over it so much. The difference should not be that big after all anyway. Focus on "clean" and quality foods, and if you do +10g or +20g carbs a day, nothing bad will happen.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks so much!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by thompssn View Post
        For some reason I'm missing if we count the total number of carbs in food or just the digestible carbs? Last time, I did full carb count. But, something made me think to check in preparation for this time, and I see lots of entries for 'digestible carbs' in blog posts, but can't find if that's what we're supposed to count or not. Terribly sorry if that's plainly laid out somewhere and I'm just overlooking it. That's been known to happen - like searching the house for the glasses that are perched on top of your head.
        On average, we need about 30 g of indigestible carbs daily. Digestible carbs can range from 0 and upward, depending on personal goals and preferences. When digestible carbs exceed energy expenditure, however, the carbs store as fat.
        Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
        Old Paths ... New Journeys

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by John Caton View Post
          When digestible carbs exceed energy expenditure, however, the carbs store as fat.
          It depends on how you look at things: usually, a high carb meal will trigger an increase of glucose oxidation post-prandial together with a decrease in beta-oxidation ("fat burning"). So the energy expenditure will actually increase due to carb intake because of increased glucose oxidation. However, EE increase will also depend on whether you are obese / insulin resistant or lean and insulin sensitive. And guess in whom EE will be greater after a high carb meal ? ... Obese people!

          De novo lipogenesis will also be greater in obese people BEFORE and AFTER a high carb meal compared to lean people because of a higher level of blood glucose overall. But glucose oxidation will be similar post-prandial when comparing lean and obese people. I think there is a study showing that, let me see ...

          Found it: Postprandial de novo lipogenesis and metabolic changes induced by a... - PubMed - NCBI

          Here is the abstract
          Adjustments of carbohydrate intake and oxidation occur in both normal-weight and overweight individuals. Nevertheless, the contribution of carbohydrates to the accumulation of fat through either reduction of fat oxidation or stimulation of fat synthesis in obesity remains poorly investigated.
          OBJECTIVE:

          The objective of this study was to assess the postprandial metabolic changes and the fractional hepatic de novo lipogenesis (DNL) induced by a high-carbohydrate, low-fat meal in lean and overweight young men.
          DESIGN: A high-carbohydrate, low-fat meal was administered to 6 lean and 7 overweight men after a 17.5-h fast. During the fasting and postprandial periods, energy expenditure (EE), macronutrient oxidation, diet-induced thermogenesis, and serum insulin, glucose, triacylglycerol, and fatty acids were measured. To determine DNL, [1-13C]sodium acetate was infused and the mass isotopomer distribution analysis method was applied.

          RESULTS: After intake of the high-carbohydrate meal, the overweight men had hyperinsulinemia and higher fatty acid and triacylglycerol concentrations than did the lean men. The overweight group showed a greater EE, whereas there was no significant difference in carbohydrate oxidation between the groups. Nevertheless, the overweight men had a marginally higher protein oxidation and a lower lipid oxidation than did the lean men. DNL was significantly higher before and after meal intake in the overweight men and was positively associated with fasting serum glucose and insulin concentrations. Furthermore, postprandial DNL was positively correlated with body fat mass, EE, and triacylglycerol.

          CONCLUSION: After a high-carbohydrate, low-fat meal, overweight men had a lower fat oxidation and a higher fractional hepatic fat synthesis than did lean men.
          Interesting isn't it ?!

          It seems that obese people have a deranged metabolism of carbs due to excess fasting glucose, insulin, FFA and trigs in their blood. That's how I read this but I am no expert.

          Comment


          • #6
            NET (digestible) carbs are the only ones to count. If they are not being digested, that renders them irrelevant to absorption even if they have other benefits. Indigestible carbs can account for quite a bit and artificially inflate your numbers for the day, leaving you with fewer options. I only count what has an impact on calories or absorption.
            | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

            “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by John Caton View Post
              On average, we need about 30 g of indigestible carbs daily. Digestible carbs can range from 0 and upward, depending on personal goals and preferences. When digestible carbs exceed energy expenditure, however, the carbs store as fat.
              Untrue. If you exceed your needs the fats you eat along with the carbs are what is stored. Carbs are very rarely stored as fat. It takes upwards of 600g of carbs before they are stored as fat when eaten in isolation, and even then it's not that much. Dietary fat becomes stored fat in a surplus. The human brain needs a minimum of 30g glucose per day, not 30g indigestible carbs.
              | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

              “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

              Comment


              • #8
                Gut flora experts recommend 30 grams of indigestible carbs (fiber, resistant starch) to adequately feed gut flora. These 30 grams should not be part of whatever target you maintain for digestible carbs.

                Glucose needs of the brain is not the same as ingested carbs. Glucose can be derived from them, or from protein. Furthermore, the brain does fine with ketones, derived from fat metabolism. Digestible carbs, by definition, are not essential.
                Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
                Old Paths ... New Journeys

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by John Caton View Post
                  Glucose needs of the brain is not the same as ingested carbs. Glucose can be derived from them, or from protein. Furthermore, the brain does fine with ketones, derived from fat metabolism. Digestible carbs, by definition, are not essential.
                  Not according to Mark... How Much Glucose Does the Brain Really Need? | Mark's Daily Apple

                  Even with gluconeogenesis, it's still best to get a minimum amount of dietary carbs in. Ketosis is a survival mechanism, doesn't mean it's an optimal state to be in all the time. Fats are also not essential, as we can manufacture them from carbs. Is that ideal? I'd say not.
                  | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                  “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For PB recommendations you count all carbs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Some fats can be derived from carbs. Essential fatty acids cannot be, so those must be ingested.

                      If ketones are insufficient to power the brain, gluconeogenesis will make the glucose simply by extracting the nitrogen from protein.
                      Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
                      Old Paths ... New Journeys

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by John Caton View Post
                        Some fats can be derived from carbs. Essential fatty acids cannot be, so those must be ingested.
                        Whether they are in fact essential is up for debate. However, regardless of what you eat, you will inevitably get the minimum amount needed. Almost everything contains trace amounts of it at a minimum. There are no truly fat-free or carb-free foods.

                        If ketones are insufficient to power the brain, gluconeogenesis will make the glucose simply by extracting the nitrogen from protein.
                        Assuming there is enough dietary protein for the conversion. Nutritional ketosis is also restrictive of protein. Bottom line is that neither dietary fats or carbs are necessary in significant amounts due to the backup pathways that fill in when dietary presence is absence. I don't believe it is optimal to restrict either of them for any long stretch of time, save for medicinal purposes (brain conditions) where the benefits outweigh the risks. This isn't a matter of which macronutrient is better. I think they are all important, but protein is the most important.
                        | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          from here:
                          "The carbs on the Primal Blueprint Carb Curve primarily refer to carbohydrates from starchy vegetables and fruit.

                          I find it easier (and more helpful) to think of non-starchy vegetables as “free” than to subtract fiber from total carbohydrate, and it accomplishes similar things. Leafy greens? Broccoli? Bok choy? Summer squash? Zucchini? Cabbage? Eat as much as you want. The carbohydrates are negligible (you probably use more glucose digesting non-starchy vegetables than they contain) and they’re inherently self-limiting
                          ."

                          I agree with others it's an unnecessary level of detail for most folks. I measure tubers and fruits by the pound but not grams--the varieties will average out over time.
                          37//6'3"/185

                          My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Makes sense, what would anyway be the point in counting non-digestive- or carbs that renders very little or no energy at all?
                            "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                            - Schopenhauer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post
                              It depends on how you look at things: usually, a high carb meal will trigger an increase of glucose oxidation post-prandial together with a decrease in beta-oxidation ("fat burning"). So the energy expenditure will actually increase due to carb intake because of increased glucose oxidation. However, EE increase will also depend on whether you are obese / insulin resistant or lean and insulin sensitive. And guess in whom EE will be greater after a high carb meal ? ... Obese people!

                              De novo lipogenesis will also be greater in obese people BEFORE and AFTER a high carb meal compared to lean people because of a higher level of blood glucose overall. But glucose oxidation will be similar post-prandial when comparing lean and obese people. I think there is a study showing that, let me see ...

                              Found it: Postprandial de novo lipogenesis and metabolic changes induced by a... - PubMed - NCBI

                              Here is the abstract


                              Interesting isn't it ?!

                              It seems that obese people have a deranged metabolism of carbs due to excess fasting glucose, insulin, FFA and trigs in their blood. That's how I read this but I am no expert.
                              Did you and Mark consult overnight? Read Mark's blog post today.
                              Stop by to visit at http://primalways.net
                              Old Paths ... New Journeys

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X