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  • Mr.Perfidy
    replied
    haha ayla you said that you couldn't imagine causing your kids pain, and I cited an example of a time and place where my parents caused me pain, and your reaction is, "oh well that doesn't count..."

    I'm sayin, obviously you can imagine it, you just have to first think that it's for the good of the child. Unless you thought that it was wrong for them to have pulled my irritating baby teeth danglies.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Chaohinon View Post
    Go back and look at the context, though. Canio and I were (kinda off-topic) discussing the relationship dynamic of a relationship where the woman consented to being hit by her husband. I argued that this couple should not be allowed to have kids, because no doubt they'll utterly fail at protecting their rights and safety. Hell yes I advocate castration for shitty people, this planet has enough of them as it is.

    Violence begets violence, that's the entire basis of my position. But what do you do with a person who's already committed a violent act and proven themselves a danger to society? At that point all bets are off, you either lock them up or put them down.
    and I got where you were coming from. Also, for the record I do not beat my wife. She knows where I sleep and is ex-Israeli military. I am not suicidal even if I were prone to hitting people, which I am not.

    I was just bringing up the point that there are consenting adult couples who have such arrangements. Chaohinon feels rather strongly about such people. More power to him. I feel that consenting adults should be able to make decisions for themselves and if some woman/man wants rules and punishments then more power to them in the confines of a consenting relationship. Not my bag, but neither is multiple partners, homosexuality, or living with a roomate. To each their own.

    I do respect Chaohinon's opinion on the matter. I just don't agree.

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  • Ayla2010
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    my mom and day pulled my baby teeth out when they were dangly and bothering me, and it hurt and they loved me.
    OK that is not even close to the same thing. Their intent was not to cause pain to you to make you obey them.
    Not at all the same.

    Well I guess some abusers could use this as a tool, but I wouldn't think your parents were doing it to hurt you on purpose. Far out.

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  • Mr.Perfidy
    replied
    my mom and day pulled my baby teeth out when they were dangly and bothering me, and it hurt and they loved me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ayla2010
    replied
    And I am seeing that some were smacked not in anger, so I can accept that some people can do that. Doesn't mean I agree, but its peoples choice to raise their children how they want.
    Any more than that, it is abuse, and I just cannot see how you could be hitting someone like that causing that pain and truly love them. I don't believe anyone can tell me that is not true.

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  • Ayla2010
    replied
    Originally posted by PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess View Post
    This is why I come at you, because you are so absolutist in your opinion it makes me sick. Other people are willing to see both sides of the coin, but not you. Now you claim to know the depths of love that people have for their kids.
    Do you think people who abuse their kids truly love them?
    The people doing that to me didn't.

    I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.

    Leave a comment:


  • bloodorchid
    replied
    Originally posted by Chaohinon View Post
    Go back and look at the context, though. Canio and I were (kinda off-topic) discussing the relationship dynamic of a relationship where the woman consented to being hit by her husband. I argued that this couple should not be allowed to have kids, because no doubt they'll utterly fail at protecting their rights and safety. Hell yes I advocate castration for shitty people, this planet has enough of them as it is.

    Violence begets violence, that's the entire basis of my position. But what do you do with a person who's already committed a violent act and proven themselves a danger to society? At that point all bets are off, you either lock them up or put them down.
    So do you want to force sterilize people who hit an accepting spouse or parents who spank?

    Leave a comment:


  • Him
    replied
    Originally posted by Chaohinon View Post
    My girlfriend comes from a family like this. She is the scapegoat for everything and the "bad" one, her sister is the golden child who can do no wrong. Even though they're about equally good and successful people.

    The asshole brother was probably the scapegoat, and over time, fell into the role. It's similar to how in high school there were "good" and "bad" kids, but it was mostly a mythology reinforced by the teachers' favoritism. Parents may claim they don't have favorites, but in some families it's clear that's a lie.
    So in one family I've known since I went to school with one of the brothers, one kid had an been arrested several times by 6th grade and had spent significant time in jail before he was 16. The other kid went straight from school to college to a good job. One kid was homeless for many years before winding up a ward of a state (as in jail, or a mental hospital, or something - it was an awkward situation and hard to ask about). The other kid earns 6 figures as an architect. Same family, same genetics, same home environment, less than a year apart....

    ...and you think the "bad" one is equally successful and was a scapegoat who fell into the role over time?

    I think you are viewing the world through a very limited window. You are so bent whatever wrongs you think happened to you and yours that you don't realize that there are real problems that other people are facing.

    Question: Why would the parents choose to scapegoat one, and elevate the other? What criteria did they use in making that choice?
    Last edited by Him; 02-12-2013, 01:40 PM.

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  • PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess
    replied
    Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    If you can hit your children like I described and lots of us have experienced, then no I don't think these people truly love their children and are just an inconvenience to them.
    This is why I come at you, because you are so absolutist in your opinion it makes me sick. Other people are willing to see both sides of the coin, but not you. Now you claim to know the depths of love that people have for their kids.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chaohinon
    replied
    Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
    Chaohinon, you are awesome. I have a man-crush on you after reading this thread.

    BUT forced-castration threats, even meant in jest, are not a good way to reinforce your point, here. Bad call.
    Go back and look at the context, though. Canio and I were (kinda off-topic) discussing the relationship dynamic of a relationship where the woman consented to being hit by her husband. I argued that this couple should not be allowed to have kids, because no doubt they'll utterly fail at protecting their rights and safety. Hell yes I advocate castration for shitty people, this planet has enough of them as it is.

    Violence begets violence, that's the entire basis of my position. But what do you do with a person who's already committed a violent act and proven themselves a danger to society? At that point all bets are off, you either lock them up or put them down.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ayla2010
    replied
    Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
    I think that whether you believe in spanking or not, whether you had your kids yesterday or 40 years ago, it is likely that every parent in this thread loves their children and does the best they can by them in every way possible.

    Agreeing or disagreeing with someone doesn't mean liking or disliking them or thinking they are "good" or "bad." This thread has gotten very contentious, and I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings.
    If you can hit your children like I described and lots of us have experienced, then no I don't think these people truly love their children and are just an inconvenience to them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ayla2010
    replied
    Originally posted by Scott F View Post
    I am happy with how we are raising our children.
    My oldest is understanding more and more all the time, and we CAN reason with him. Its how the school deals with issues, by talking through them.
    My youngest doesn't always understand everything but doesn't mean I am not going to talk through things. I talked to them all day about everything from birth. Doesn't everyone do that?

    Leave a comment:


  • JoanieL
    replied
    I think that whether you believe in spanking or not, whether you had your kids yesterday or 40 years ago, it is likely that every parent in this thread loves their children and does the best they can by them in every way possible.

    Agreeing or disagreeing with someone doesn't mean liking or disliking them or thinking they are "good" or "bad." This thread has gotten very contentious, and I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scott F
    replied
    Originally posted by Zanna View Post
    Hahaha, my stepdad used to say they had bought me from the gypsies for two tambourines . . . And they really missed those tambourines.
    Oh, now I can't wait to have grandkids and use that line . My daughter has a new puppy she brought home this past weekend. I practiced spoiling it for her. He's sure got sharp teeth.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scott F
    replied
    Originally posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    What do you mean?


    Exactly, that. Too many people believe they can use reason with a mind that hasn't developed the capacity to yet do so.


    google: primitive child rearing
    lots of stuff to choose from
    https://www.google.com/search?q=prim...t=firefox-beta


    Best Practices for Raising Kids? Look to Hunter-Gatherers - Newsweek and The Daily Beast

    Is it time to return to caveman parenting? - Health - Children's health | NBC News

    Child Rearing and the Treatment of Children in Primitive Cultures | BenthamScience

    Leave a comment:

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